Why does my music start sounding crappier once I go past 70db on my AVR ?

[Deleted member 48726]

Folks, it doesn't matter if the SPL app is accurate +/- 10 %!

The result is still the same!

I get it, you like measurements and numbers, but please, call a friend that can tell it straight without having a doctorate.

 

[ROOSKIE]

I have calibrated REW against a true SPL meter and comparing with Android apps is not far.
But none of them measures peaks as a true spl meter or a calibrated REW.

Folks, it doesn't matter if the SPL app is accurate +/- 10 %!

The result is still the same!

I get it, you like measurements and numbers, but please, call a friend that can tell it straight without having a doctorate.

AudioTool does but it requires a mic. All of my Andorid apps have been off by 5-10db on several phones. Since they are not calibrated it is possible your was closer by chance, what is the chance the OP's is? There are thousands of different Android phone and mic combos. I researched this endless. There are no calibrated general Android apps for any Android phone.

@Holdt with due repect you must be kidding? 10% of 90 db is 9db. 9db is almost 10x the power. I have had Android apps off by that much. Even the 5db is stunningly wrong when trying to measure the limits of gear. The difference between 90 and 81db is huge.

 

[Seany]

Linton's have specified 3 dB higher SPL (90 dB) while Polk's R700 are specified with the same SPL but come with two 8" woffer's so arguably could go 3 dB louder if feed with enough power (4x more power which you by the way don't have).
Both can pass without sub regarding response down to 40 Hz, but with two SVS SB-2000 you would have it all the way down to 20 Hz and it could go considerably louder (let's say 9/12 dB R700/Linton's) and without having to get considerably stronger power amplifier (they come with 500 W RMS inbuilt one's).
So you get 3 dB more with Linton's for same amount of power (+3 dB = 2x W) and that certainly won't make much of a difference. Interestingly Polk is giving away it's entry level PSW 10 sub's (which actually went well on Eren's measurements) on purchases over 500$ (one sub per one purchase).

PSW 10 Subwoofer - 10" 100W Powered Woofer | Polk Audio

The PSW 10 subwoofer features a 10" woofer in a vented front panel port enclosure to add deep bass excitement to your music or movie sound system.

www.polkaudio.com

But those are too small and week for you.
By the way you can get two SVS SB-2000 right now from Amazon (on sale 550$ a peace) for the price of single Polk R700 speaker.

So with the lintons my current AVR I have would play a just a little bit louder and if I get the Polks it would definitely play louder but I just don't have the power to do it. So if I keep my same speakers and AVR and I get two subs that would play louder and basically blow the linton's and polks away ?

 

[Seany]

Do you have a local hi-fi store that sells the Lintons or Polks and would let you try them out at home?

That way you'd be much less likely to make a purchase you end up regretting.

Alternatively you could buy from a seller with a good returns policy (but be sure to read the small print first!)

This is a good idea I've had it in my mind for a while I'd have to drive to Cincinnati probably though which is two hours away.

 

[Mr. Widget]

AudioTool does but it requires a mic. All of my Andorid apps have been off by 5-10db on several phones. Since they are not calibrated it is possible your was closer by chance, what is the chance the OP's is? There are thousands of different Android phone and mic combos. I researched this endless. There are no calibrated general Android apps for any Android phone.

@Holdt with due repect you must be kidding? 10% of 90 db is 9db. 9db is almost 10x the power. I have had Android apps off by that much. Even the 5db is stunningly wrong when trying to measure the limits of gear. The difference between 90 and 81db is huge.

If you can accept using an iOS device, you will find Audio Tools's SPL app is surprisingly accurate. Here is a link to a test I performed: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...get-honest-with-spl.39932/page-6#post-1407788

 

[Deleted member 48726]

AudioTool does but it requires a mic. All of my Andorid apps have been off by 5-10db on several phones. Since they are not calibrated it is possible your was closer by chance, what is the chance the OP's is? There are thousands of different Android phone and mic combos. I researched this endless. There are no calibrated general Android apps for any Android phone.

@Holdt with due repect you must be kidding? 10% of 90 db is 9db. 9db is almost 10x the power. I have had Android apps off by that much. Even the 5db is stunningly wrong when trying to measure the limits of gear. The difference between 90 and 81db is huge.

Are YOU kidding? Do you think I meant of the absolute value..

 

[Seany]

I think he should buy larger speakers 1st and see how that goes.
That seems simpler for him as he is obviously just starting out and adding subs in correctly is not easy for a lot of people. Maybe most people.
If he truly wants epic loud and wants that to include 30hrz at 105+db then add subs later.

In any case it seems he would benefit from larger speakers so I suggest he get those 1st. The bass may be enough for him. He never said he was a bass head and is using DBR62's right now. A lot of folks do not need super low bass to be room shaking. If it turns out he wants that then yes get good subs. Such output mostly benefits movie explosions and not very much music (though some of course)

OP in order of estimated output ability 40hrz and up, a small list of the stuff I and others mentioned
JBL L100 = most total SPL potential upgrade
JBL 590 = a lot
KEF R11 = a lot
POLK R700 = almost a lot
Wharfedale Linton = least total SPL upgrade but still significant
and then notably below these are your current DBR62's




No Android apps are accurate. He has Android, there are zero accurate apps due to all of the different models. Any app needs to be calibrated to that phone. Only Apple has a few apps that are calibrated to known iPhone models.

I mention Andoid's AudioTool for $7.99 and 3.5mm jack mic but that will require the phone still has headphone output.

I will check out those JBL's, I have to see some reviews I don't like bright speakers and I like it more a little bit on the warmish side. I mean I think changing out the speakers would probably be my best option I mean one of my expecting from small bookshelves that seems to be the biggest red flag right there. I know some of you are saying I should just add a couple of subs, but really adding subs to small bookshelves and I want big sound it just doesn't seem to make 100% sense. I mean how many of you guys putting two subs with a smaller 6.5 bookshelves I doubt very many of you are doing that right?

 

[Matt Bell]

This is a good idea I've had it in my mind for a while I'd have to drive to Cincinnati probably though which is two hours away.

If making two round-trips (to pick up the speakers and return them) is too much, you could ask the hi-fi store(s) whether you could take your amp with you for an in-store demo.

Not quite as good as a home demo (because the room acoustics are bound to be different), but at least it'd give you a sense of whether your amp can drive the speakers to the kind of level you want.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I will check out those JBL's, I have to see some reviews I don't like bright speakers and I like it more a little bit on the warmish side. I mean I think changing out the speakers would probably be my best option I mean one of my expecting from small bookshelves that seems to be the biggest red flag right there. I know some of you are saying I should just add a couple of subs, but really adding subs to small bookshelves and I want big sound it just doesn't seem to make 100% sense. I mean how many of you guys putting two subs with a smaller 6.5 bookshelves I doubt very many of you are doing that right?

Theoretically it makes sense. In real life, when wanting "big" sound. -It doesn't satisfy. (me).

 

[Mr. Widget]

My ex has a Apple 13 pro max and she is coming over Sunday, I'm sure she would let borrow it for 5 mins. But I couldn't do multiple songs. I don't know anything about Apple phones. Then I could just test it with one song at 70 the unit number on the front display and one when it starts misbehaving. I'll definitely try that Sunday I promise just hang on guys till then LOL. We need to get to the bottom of this. I'll try and get the same app as I used the first time but the iOS version but does the app have to be calibrated with the iPhone 13?

Search for Audio Tools. I believe it costs $10.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I will check out those JBL's, I have to see some reviews I don't like bright speakers and I like it more a little bit on the warmish side...

In my experience you will not be able to get realistic (live music) playback levels with any 12" three-way speaker.

The L100 Classic and many others will certainly play loudly, but like most speakers of reasonable size, they will sound constrained when you turn them up. If playing at higher SPLs and not having the music masked by fairly high distortion you need something much larger and more capable. Unfortunately most of those speakers have other issues if they are remotely affordable. Classic Altecs come to mind. With careful EQ they can be pretty satisfying.

 

[ZolaIII]

So with the lintons my current AVR I have would play a just a little bit louder and if I get the Polks it would definitely play louder but I just don't have the power to do it. So if I keep my same speakers and AVR and I get two subs that would play louder and basically blow the linton's and polks away ?

Yes it would and go deeper and better.
L100 are R'N'R speakers as once John said half kidding. They don't go very low (45 Hz - 6 dB) and have a bit of the bass boost so they are definitely warm. Thanks to big 12" woofers they have very high dynamic range and are rather very efficient (almost 92 dB SPL per W into 8 Ohms @1m). So that would be some 5 dB advantage over DBR62's on the same power and could go up to where you want with 300 W RMS into 8 Ohms (actually using about 240).

JBL L100 Classic Bookshelf Loudspeaker Review - Modern Take on a Classic

The JBL L100 Classics have the look of the L100 Centurys updated with the latest in loudspeaker design for improved performance. Our review determines if they surpass the originals to create a new legacy.

www.audioholics.com

On the other hand this are SVS-2000 sub's (at two meters).

SVS PB-2000 and SB-2000 Subwoofers Review

Review: The SVS ported PB-2000 and sealed SB-2000 subwoofers sport custom 12" drivers, a new 500 watt amp with DSP, performance below 20Hz, and a price-tag less than $800. The SVS 2000 series subs.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Seany]

Search for Audio Tools. I believe it costs $10.


View attachment 282046

$10 dollars ?? Do they charge for everything on IOS ? It's not my phone.

 

[Seany]

In my experience you will not be able to get realistic (live music) playback levels with any 12" three-way speaker.

The L100 Classic and many others will certainly play loudly, but like most speakers of reasonable size, they will sound constrained when you turn them up. If playing at higher SPLs and not having the music masked by fairly high distortion you need something much larger and more capable. Unfortunately most of those speakers have other issues if they are remotely affordable. Classic Altecs come to mind. With careful EQ they can be pretty satisfying.

Some you guys make seem I want to blow the roof my house. I just want to play a little louder and clear then my DBR62's. I do find the DBR62's sound to be a little recessed. I wish they were just bit more lively or should I say forward just a tad more.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Some you guys make seem I want to blow the roof my house. I just want to play a little louder and clear then my DBR62's.

Well. A little is actually a lot when you are distorting or clipping and want that to disappear with headroom to spare.

 

[Mr. Widget]

$10 dollars ?? Do they charge for everything on IOS ? It's not my phone.

No, but considering you are getting an app where the creator builds a calibration file for each new generation of iOS device, I think $10 is a bargain. I paid thousands years ago for similar functionality.

 

[krabapple]

I will check out those JBL's, I have to see some reviews I don't like bright speakers and I like it more a little bit on the warmish side. I mean I think changing out the speakers would probably be my best option I mean one of my expecting from small bookshelves that seems to be the biggest red flag right there. I know some of you are saying I should just add a couple of subs, but really adding subs to small bookshelves and I want big sound it just doesn't seem to make 100% sense. I mean how many of you guys putting two subs with a smaller 6.5 bookshelves I doubt very many of you are doing that right?

2 cheap subs and 5 cheap studio monitors with ~6.5 (nominally "6.75") woofers powered by a Denon AVR.

Sounds fjne to me . Even in stereo. Then again I don't sit 10 feet away from them, I use room EQ DSP , I use a touch of room treatment, and I don't play them at deafening levels for extended periods of time.

 

[ZolaIII]

No, but considering you are getting an app where the creator builds a calibration file for each new generation of iOS device, I think $10 is a bargain. I paid thousands years ago for similar functionality.

Which arguably does make it more accurate but still far from individual correction measurements for good measurement microphone. As you made case how it's a big difference for Android.
Now let's get serious, only ever used microphones on mobile device that really whose good enough where one's on Nokia N808.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Which arguably does make it more accurate but still far from individual correction measurements for good measurement microphone. As you made case how it's a big difference for Android.
Now let's get serious, only ever used microphones on mobile device that really whose good enough where one's on Nokia N808.

Did you see my results in the link I posted in post #165 above? I was stunned by the accuracy when compared my phone against a calibrated $1000 lab grade mic. The FR linearity is not as good, but for basic SPL measurements the iOS mics are quite satisfactory.

 

[ZolaIII]

2 cheap subs and 5 cheap studio monitors with ~6.5 (nominally "6.75") woofers powered by a Denon AVR.

Sounds fjne to me . Even in stereo. Then again I don't sit 10 feet away from them, I use room EQ DSP , I use a touch of room treatment, and I don't play them at deafening levels.

Same hire but stereo only and I do calibration at 83 dB (mono) white noise at 2.3 m in a small room with two 10" sub's (30 Hz 0 dB) and pair of 6.5“ speakers all close enclosure with 100 W Yamaha (140 W 10% THD) and minimal room treatment. Use Equal loudness normalisation and listen on (significantly) lower levels 95% of time (than 85~86 dB average which it pushes no sweat). I am a little bigger control/EQ freek but that's about it.