Why do records sound so much better than digital?

[Guermantes]

There are a few reasons it is possible for the vinyl version of an older recording to be preferred to digital by some.

1. Vinyl "mastering" is more than just making adjustments for summed mono and the like. Some "famous" mastering engineers like RVG, Robert Ludwig, and others made EQ and level changes "on the fly" when the records where being cut. Often times these changes are only on the original pressing with the dead wax signed by the engineer with later pressings mastered by "junior" engineers. While there is a lot of folklore, in some cases I do find original pressings to be preferred to later ones and to the CD. The original AB mastering of Steely Dan Aja is one that really does seem to live up to the hype. "Chasing mastering's" can be fun.

2. Sometimes the original master tapes were damaged or lost during the decades from original vinyl to the digital age and sometimes the backups tapes are so bad that the vinyl sounds better. There are a lot of CD's of older music that are "needle drops" because no tapes sources exist.

3. Unlike "master engineers" that created the original vinyl masters many CD's were mastered by hacks that made poor EQ choices or later "loudness wars" compression. I find a fair number of these where I prefer the original vinyl mastering despite all the other issues with it.

I mostly agree with your points, but these would be my responses.

1. These are fairly exclusive examples and can't really be generalised into a "vinyl sounds better than CD" or master tape argument. Those mastering changes would have been made based on working with the limitations of the format and understanding how to massage the recording to sound good -- a fine art in itself and much respect to Bob Ludwig and others who had the expertise. But in the end I think this is about preference based less on sound quality of the format than on nostalgia for a certain type of sound experience. I know I have "chased masterings" of albums that were a significant part of my youth, but I think much of that is an attempt to recreate what was ultimately an experience of listening based on the psychological profile of a younger self.

2. Yes, but this is an archival issue. We have to work with the best version that exists or that we have access to. I've had to bake a few tapes myself to get them to state where they can be playable for digitisation.

3. Querelle des Anciens et des Modernes. I suspect there were hacks in the heyday of vinyl mastering, too. That said, I despise the abuse of brickwall limiting in much digital mastering and I'm often horrified when a remaster of an iconic album resorts to this.

 

[Holmz]

@Guermantes I think we are pretty close to being in alignment.

How is Brissy?
A friend lives one the Gold Coast, and we talked with him and his Mrs yesterday.

Not a lot of audio happen down in Albany, although I did stumble upon a speaker maker here… and AusPost delivers LPs, as well as I can stream audio and NetFlix as well as SBS-Ondemand,..

I’ll start streaming the Spotify and working on the house, just to close the year off being productive.

 

[MinMan]

"nostalgia" is all powerful...

 

[Guermantes]

@Guermantes I think we are pretty close to being in alignment.

How is Brissy?
A friend lives one the Gold Coast, and we talked with him and his Mrs yesterday.

Not a lot of audio happen down in Albany, although I did stumble upon a speaker maker here… and AusPost delivers LPs, as well as I can stream audio and NetFlix as well as SBS-Ondemand,..

I’ll start streaming the Spotify and working on the house, just to close the year off being productive.

Albany looks to be a nice spot -- it seems you avoid the heat that WA is famous for. I grew up on the Gold Coast but don't miss living there as study, work and music have all been more productive in the city.

And FWIW, I have a Luxman turntable and a reasonable collection of vinyl that I play when I am feeling nostalgic. Last time I was in Tokyo I even spent a day scouring Disc Union stores in Shinjuku for some choice licorice pizzas.

 

[j_j]

Heh, I think you opened a mine field for yourself. If the unique sound can be captured as a digital file, then what is wrong with digital recording? And if there's nothing wrong with digital recording, then what do we need vinyl for?

Euphonic distortions, in a nutshell.

 

[Holmz]

Albany looks to be a nice spot -- it seems you avoid the heat that WA is famous for. I grew up on the Gold Coast but don't miss living there as study, work and music have all been more productive in the city.

And FWIW, I have a Luxman turntable and a reasonable collection of vinyl that I play when I am feeling nostalgic. Last time I was in Tokyo I even spent a day scouring Disc Union stores in Shinjuku for some choice licorice pizzas.

I’ll take the Luxman off line in a PM Maybe?
I found one, that is 230v and wondering of it is worthwhile to try… It may have been a Lenco though. I need to check.

Yes it is gloriously cool here.

 

[JRS]

Sort of true, but the main reason plasma died is purely practical. It was not possible to manufacture 4K plasmas cost effectively and they would never have been capable of reaching HDR brightness levels. Even if they could, power consumption would have been far beyond reasonable domestic levels. All problems that OLED does not have.

Plus they weighed a ton, and required a metal back. Very expensive for makers to ship to Europe and the states. They had a good run of 15 years, and while I still have one, I don't miss the technology any more than my Class A monoblocks.

 

[JRS]

I have never found black levels OR any off axis viewing to match my somewhat newer Panasonic Plasma.

My LCD Tv appears brighter and can be adjusted to silly bright levels, but beyond that is has a somewhat "Artificial look" to colors and certain things in the picture.
Even what trying to adjust the two to look "similar", few years ago, the LCD just had a less natural look.

One funny moment, had friends over and they raved about my OLED a few weeks ago. Went to the other room where I moved the older Panny Plasma, and a couple said.."Ooh cool you actually got Two OLEDS?? Assuming the old plasma was also an OLED....

I had three Panny plasmas, and never did I walk into one while it was on as I have done twice in a dark room with OLED's. (On a scissor mount 2 feet off the wall) Without a signal, they are absolutely invisible in a dark room. My plasmas always had a telltale ghost, probably because one is forced to jack up the brightness levels for daytime use. In a cave they work well, and help to keep things warm.

 

[swampfire]

I’m very proud of myself for not starting a thread entitled “Why do CDs sound so much better than vinyl?”

I’m listening to a CD I grabbed at a concert in the 90’s, “Blister Soul” by Vigilantes of Love. It’s also on Apple Music as lossless, give it a listen.

 

[rdenney]

Euphonic distortions, in a nutshell.

And fun.

Rick “this is a hobby” Denney

 

[j_j]

And fun.

Rick “this is a hobby” Denney

No problem with that! Just not "more perfect"

 

[Sal1950]

And fun.

Rick “this is a hobby” Denney

Never figure how some find it "fun" jumping up every 15 minutes to,

• Lift the tonearm
• Change or flip the record.
• Clean the record.
• De-static the record.
• Clean the needle.
• Aline and lower the tonearm in the correct spot.
• More

That sounds more like a job I should get paid for than anything like indulging in the pleasure of listening to music.

 

[Robin L]

Never figure how some find it "fun" jumping up every 15 minutes to,

• Lift the tonearm
• Change or flip the record.
• Clean the record.
• De-static the record.
• Clean the needle.
• Aline and lower the tonearm in the correct spot.
• More

That sounds more like a job I should get paid for than anything like indulging in the pleasure of listening to music.

With the guitar, it's tuning, then playing a little, then tuning again because you know the tuning slipped, then maybe looking for a footrest, or trying out [tuning again] another guitar, all before you figure out what to play.

If it's a magic ritual, you light the candles and call the quarters.

It's always something, that's the nature of hobbies, some other stuff too.

 

[Sal1950]

With the guitar, it's tuning, then playing a little, then tuning again because you know the tuning slipped, then maybe looking for a footrest, or trying out [tuning again] another guitar, all before you figure out what to play.

That's why I play an electric piano, no torture involved, just play the damn thing. LOL

 

[Robin L]

That's why I play an electric piano, no torture involved, just play the damn thing. LOL

Pity the poor Fortepianist, who must retune his/her instrument about every 30 minutes or so.

 

[Head_Unit]

A vinyl record in the early 80s, was probably better than a cassette tape, unless (perhaps) it is on a very good cassette player

Well I had a 3-head Radio Shack unit (made by...ah on the tip of my brain, I forget). It could make excellent recordings in Dolby C. But usually the source was...vinyl records!

 

[dlaloum]

Never figure how some find it "fun" jumping up every 15 minutes to,

• Lift the tonearm
• Change or flip the record.
• Clean the record.
• De-static the record.
• Clean the needle.
• Aline and lower the tonearm in the correct spot.
• More

That sounds more like a job I should get paid for than anything like indulging in the pleasure of listening to music.

You could get one of the high end 80's linear trackers, with a remote control.... (Revox)

Or any of the high end automatics (Thorens comes to mind)

If you don't want to have to flip the record - The top end Sharp and Mitsubishi turntables (from memory) had the disc vertical, with two tonearms, tracking linearly on either side - no record flipping.

If the record has been properly cleaned and treated appropriately, de-static and needle cleaning should not be required.

Major record cleaning, if done correctly, and if the record is stored correctly, is a once in a blue moon affair.... on receipt/purchase of the record, and then once every few years maybe (depending on how often it is played).

Yes, digital has massive convenience and technical advantages over records.... but many of them were overcome with technology - and the conveniences are now ignored in favour of increasing the "ritual" aspects...

 

[rdenney]

Never figure how some find it "fun" jumping up every 15 minutes to,

• Lift the tonearm
• Change or flip the record.
• Clean the record.
• De-static the record.
• Clean the needle.
• Aline and lower the tonearm in the correct spot.
• More

That sounds more like a job I should get paid for than anything like indulging in the pleasure of listening to music.

Sal, that's opinion, not data. People get to decide for themselves what's fun, and don't need anyone's approval.

Rick "can't mess with someone else's use cases" Denney

 

[billyjoebob]

Never figure how some find it "fun" jumping up every 15 minutes to,

• Lift the tonearm
• Change or flip the record.
• Clean the record.
• De-static the record.
• Clean the needle.
• Aline and lower the tonearm in the correct spot.
• More

That sounds more like a job I should get paid for than anything like indulging in the pleasure of listening to music.

Some would argue thats interacting with your music on a deeper level than just clicking a mouse!
Ok. I would say that.
Don't know about anyone else.

 

[Guermantes]

Never figure how some find it "fun" jumping up every 15 minutes to,

• Lift the tonearm
• Change or flip the record.
• Clean the record.
• De-static the record.
• Clean the needle.
• Aline and lower the tonearm in the correct spot.
• More

That sounds more like a job I should get paid for than anything like indulging in the pleasure of listening to music.

Yes, I much prefer reclining on a divan being fed choice pieces of ripe fruit by nubile maidens whilst being serenaded by my court musicians.