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Why do records sound so much better than digital?

Digby

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They are also a good replacement for a radiator and a good way to up your electricity consumption. For this alone, I'm not surprised they went the way of the dodo.
 

beagleman

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My 5yo Panasonic LED is better than the plasma (admittedly 10+yo at the time) it replaced, though when I visited my daughter who inherited the plasma, I was always surprised by how good it was.
I have never found black levels OR any off axis viewing to match my somewhat newer Panasonic Plasma.

My LCD Tv appears brighter and can be adjusted to silly bright levels, but beyond that is has a somewhat "Artificial look" to colors and certain things in the picture.
Even what trying to adjust the two to look "similar", few years ago, the LCD just had a less natural look.

One funny moment, had friends over and they raved about my OLED a few weeks ago. Went to the other room where I moved the older Panny Plasma, and a couple said.."Ooh cool you actually got Two OLEDS?? Assuming the old plasma was also an OLED....
 

beagleman

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They are also a good replacement for a radiator and a good way to up your electricity consumption. For this alone, I'm not surprised they went the way of the dodo.

That is only true of the very first ones.
Mine from 2013 about, puts out only a small amount of heat. That was one of the Plasma myths.

The early ones DID put out some heat for sure though.
 

Digby

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I suppose it isn't totally a myth if the early ones did that. I only remember one from about 2007/2008, I imagine that would qualify as early. I didn't know they improved a lot on energy consumption/heat output in later years, but yes, I remember the picture being rather good.
 
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krabapple

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Moving Magnets have the quality which betters clinical CD's. Had an expensive Moving Coil with a separate RIAA, and it was too close to the infamous CD one is trying to avoid.

Summary
Moving Magnet - Yes,
Moving Coil - No.
Summary: This makes no sense.

You don't account for mastering differences that exist between the LP and CD versions.
 

krabapple

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My understanding, learned from internet forums so not sure it is correct, is that many early classic rock / pop CD's were mastered from the LP mastering tapes

That's my recollection too, from the first wave of 'remasterings' in the late 80s/early 90s. Production masters, incorporating whatever manual EQ moves* were necessary to cut a playable record, were ready 'on the shelf' when demand for CDs was very high at the start (the early-mid 1980s).

and that in many cases the original master tapes were discarded and they only saved the LP mastering tape as that what was considered useful / valuable.

Sometimes. A lot of original master tapes have survived. Some were found to have been labelled as 'do not use'.

Yet many have been lost , either simply 'gone missing' or to disasters like the warehouse fire.


(*though not, I believe, the RIAA curve, which was an automated process)
 
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Head_Unit

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63 pages on I'll chime in "not for me!" Even at shows with crazy expensive vinyl systems, I almost always hear snap crackle and pop and whatever other mild crud. Wow and flutter. Noise, noise...not all the time though. When CD came in I never missed vinyl for one second. Now, are there sh!tty CDs? Oh heck yeah! Though I also remember returning 5-6 copies of some Jimi Hendrix title because the pressings just sucked.
 

Head_Unit

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A lot of original master tapes have survived...Yet many have been lost , either simply 'gone missing' or to disasters like the warehouse fire.
I don't get that. Bands don't make/get their own at least copies? I guess nobody every copied their own multitracks? Nobody makes backups of this stuff? Seems nuts to me.
 

Robin L

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I don't get that. Bands don't make/get their own at least copies? I guess nobody every copied their own multitracks? Nobody makes backups of this stuff? Seems nuts to me.
Sure does, don't it?
Bands don't usually get the tapes if the studio made them and there's a line in the contract the band signed stating the tapes belong to the recording company. It's not all that common for bands from back in the day to have their own masters [there are exceptions]. Now the bulk of recordings are self-produced.
 

levimax

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I don't get that. Bands don't make/get their own at least copies? I guess nobody every copied their own multitracks? Nobody makes backups of this stuff? Seems nuts to me.
Depending on the contract, the record company often owns the master tape, not the artists. They are not great stewards of their own art obviously. While there are often backup tapes made, before digital each tape copy lost something like 3 dB of SINAD. I would guess things are different now but who knows.
 

j_j

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Depending on the contract, the record company often owns the master tape, not the artists. They are not great stewards of their own art obviously. While there are often backup tapes made, before digital each tape copy lost something like 3 dB of SINAD. I would guess things are different now but who knows.


That's quite the understatement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Universal_Studios_fire

And, don't ask what happened to the masters for many of the most historical 1950's and 1960's recordings.

THEY WERE RE-USED. RE USED! Deliberately erased and reused.

Why? Because "this fad isn't going to last". I suspect, if you consider many of the significant musicians of the time, there is another obvious kind of thinking in the background. :(

Infuriating.
 

billyjoebob

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63 pages on I'll chime in "not for me!" Even at shows with crazy expensive vinyl systems, I almost always hear snap crackle and pop and whatever other mild crud. Wow and flutter. Noise, noise...not all the time though. When CD came in I never missed vinyl for one second. Now, are there sh!tty CDs? Oh heck yeah! Though I also remember returning 5-6 copies of some Jimi Hendrix title because the pressings just sucked.
Out of sheer curiosity....
Why did you keep buying the same title if the mastering never changed?
 

j_j

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Out of sheer curiosity....
Why did you keep buying the same title if the mastering never changed?

He said PRESSING, not master. With vinyl, it is possible, and in the 80's when record companies were skimping on vinyl because of the oil "shortage", you could, and did, get appallingly horrid pressings.
 

Robin L

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He said PRESSING, not master. With vinyl, it is possible, and in the 80's when record companies were skimping on vinyl because of the oil "shortage", you could, and did, get appallingly horrid pressings.
Also the 1970's. That's when RCA came out with "Dynaflex" records, featuring considerably less vinyl than other pressings of the time. Capitol/EMI was using regrind, warped pressings were commonplace from most US labels. The seventies were when import pressings started to appear, in large part a response to bad US pressings.
 

krabapple

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I don't get that. Bands don't make/get their own at least copies?

No, they usually didn't. Usually the record company owns the tapes, by the terms of the signing contract with the artist, and have control over them.

You've heard about Taylor Swift re-recording her catalog (at her own expense)? There's a reason for that.

I guess nobody every copied their own multitracks? Nobody makes backups of this stuff? Seems nuts to me.
Again, traditionally the record companies paid for the recording sessions and the products thereof. They own them. And it's their responsibility to take care of the tapes. Which hasn't always happened.
 
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cata02

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Brightness was not way lower though.

In showroom they appeared not as bright, but at home, mine is plenty bright. The 4k part may be true, but most was based on LCD being far cheaper and far more profit.
Remember Plasma cost LESS than a comparable sized LCD just several years ago......

OLED still to this day, is really not mainstream or affordable to most people. I have seen some of the better LCD (LED) Tvs and they simply are not comparable to my old Plasma in all ways.

I do have an OLED, but almost regret buying it. SURE, it looks great, it does 4k, but I keep feeling like for the money is was a not much of an improvement over my 8 year old Panasonic Plasma. It cost 4 times as much. ............I have some buyers regret I guess.

I feel like I could have waited a few more years.
I have both a Panasonic G60 and a new Sony oled and they are not a match in terms of brightness.
Measurements also confirm this.

Dolby Vision/HDR on the sony is miles more immersive than my Panasonic ever was; even the black is noticeably lower and no blooming...
Though i still love the image from the panasonic plasma :)

The market is driven by profit; plasma was becoming a niche back then due to cos/benefit; led was way cheaper for the masses; oled took over the videophile world and will continue to advance towards mainstream.

micro led/qled oled might be the next step and a new cycle begins.
 

beagleman

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He said PRESSING, not master. With vinyl, it is possible, and in the 80's when record companies were skimping on vinyl because of the oil "shortage", you could, and did, get appallingly horrid pressings.
Yeah I used to have a HUGE record collection, given to me by an older family member. Well over 1000 records, mostly from the late 50s, 60s and 70s.

The physical make of of records SEEMED far better in the 60s and part of the 70s, compared to the 80s records for sure.

They just seemed to have barely any warpage at all, and hard to explain, just "seemed" better quality.
 

ThatM1key

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I have both a Panasonic G60 and a new Sony oled and they are not a match in terms of brightness.
Measurements also confirm this.

Dolby Vision/HDR on the sony is miles more immersive than my Panasonic ever was; even the black is noticeably lower and no blooming...
Though i still love the image from the panasonic plasma :)

The market is driven by profit; plasma was becoming a niche back then due to cos/benefit; led was way cheaper for the masses; oled took over the videophile world and will continue to advance towards mainstream.

micro led/qled oled might be the next step and a new cycle begins.
I hope micro led & mini led kill oled. It's 2021, we shouldn't have to worry about burn in like an old crt.
 

Monstieur

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The unique sound of vinyl playback on a particular record player can be losslessly captured as a digital file.
 

ThatM1key

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The unique sound of vinyl playback on a particular record player can be losslessly recorded as a digital file and you can throw away the vinyl.
You are wrong on many levels. Its technically not lossless. By that logic, recording a CD (like a cassette tape) is "lossless".

There is so many factors when it comes to vinyl recording:
  • The Record Player
  • The Cartridge
  • The Preamp
  • The ADC
  • Recording Software & Settings
  • The condition of the Vinyl LP
  • Recording Storage
  • Click, Pop & Noise Removal Software (Optional)
I am pretty thankful that CDs can be ripped perfectly with no actual loss versus recording them. I wish vinyl's can be done the same way.
 
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