Why do records sound so much better than digital?

[Sal1950]

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC

BS, it's all about playing with that 40 yo antique.
If you really cared about listening to The Music, you'd have modern gear and the best quality mixes-media of each one
that you claim is SO important to you.
That gear what we research here and the reason for this site.
You can write very eloquently J.J. , but you can't BS a street guy.
"So your entire spew is illogical, inaccurate, and insulting."
I know when the smokes being blown, been listening to it all my life.

 

[JP]

We were discussing the music used at audio shows for demo's
Would you use that to judge the quality of a $500,00 music system?

Why would someone use an LP full of scratches?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'd have no issue using LPs I know well to judge a system. It should be obvious that the ultimate "accuracy" of a recording has no bearing on being able to make a subjective judgment on the reproduction of material that one knows well.

These aren't even creative straw men anymore.

 

[Sal1950]

I absolutely adore Frietz Reiner,right? (that's the true part)
And I know nothing about gear,absolutely zero.
So,I'm asking you who know stuff "what can I do to hear him at his best,ideally,at what they heard at the studio where they produced the music?"

What can be the honest answer?

There appears to be hundreds of albums available in lossless digital at Apple Music
Search Amir's reviews for gear recommendations, that's what he does.
What's missing?

 

[Sokel]

There appears to be hundreds of albums available in lossless digital at Apple Music
Search Amir's reviews for gear recommendations, that's what he does.
What's missing?

Yep.I know each and every recording and media available for the said conductor,I believe I have them all.
But!
The main recommendation here is being true to the source,right?What's that famous source then?
The reel mastering tapes?The ears or the mastering director and people that judge the production going out of a studio?
Am I going to be true to the source listening to the same tube amps,etc,they listened too?

 

[Sal1950]

Yep.I know each and every recording and media available for the said conductor,I believe I have them all.
But!
The main recommendation here is being true to the source,right?What's that famous source then?
The reel mastering tapes?The ears or the mastering director and people that judge the production going out of a studio?
Am I going to be true to the source listening to the same tube amps,etc,they listened too?

Time marches on.
If you really feel that way, why not source what's available on 78 and play it on a Edison crank-up.

 

[JP]

Where's your straw man?
It was asked why audio shows use a fairly limited amount of music for demos.
I simply stated they mostly use the best of whats available including vinyl and digital.
Would you use a old LP full of scratches and pops?
That's simply the truth of the situation.
Go to a show and ask the displayers if you think my answer is in error.

I don't have LPs full of scratches and pops. Didn't see anyone say that's what they were using. And for the record you gave the below opinion, which is different from what you've now said above.

And the point of HiFi shows is to highlight a systems capability, something best done with SOTA quality recordings, so that's what they use.
Boring or not, what would you use, some 75 year old LP full of scratches and noise?
Just the nature of the beast.

 

[Sokel]

Time marches on.
If you really feel that way, why not source what's available on 78 and play it on a Edison crank-up.

Guess again:

(First my grandfather's now mine,we all crazy about music in this family)

 

[Sal1950]

And for the record you gave the below opinion, which is different from what you've now said above.

Exactly, you're trying to invent a difference that doesn't exist.
DUH

 

[JP]

Exactly, you're trying to invent a difference that doesn't exist.
DUH

Invent what difference?

 

[Sal1950]

Guess again:


View attachment 265133


View attachment 265134

View attachment 265135

(First my grandfathers now mine,we all crazy about music in this family)

Very kool, wish I had room for one.
I have these, but I don't listen to music on them even though they all work.

 

[Sal1950]

And for the record you gave the below opinion, which is different from what you've now said above.

Invent what difference?

So stop JP, you're getting ridiculous and I'm done replying to you.

 

[Sokel]

Very kool, wish I had room for one.
I have these, but I don't listen to music on them even though they all work.
View attachment 265137View attachment 265138View attachment 265139

That's cool!I love their aesthetics too,each one is unique.
Mine plays just fine,and on top of that I'm amazed with the simple solution they came up with for volume control on 1913 (the grilles,they have a knob to the side to adjust them).
Listening to that is my family's history I listen too apart from music,nothing beats that.

 

[JP]

So stop JP, you're getting ridiculous and I'm done replying to you.

I honestly don't know what you're talking bout. I respond to one comment, you re-state it in a materially different way, and I'm supposedly inventing differences?

 

[Sal1950]

Listening to that is my family's history I listen too apart from music,nothing beats that.

When I was still living up in Chicago there was a radio station that once a week played
tapes of radio shows from back in the 1930's, etc. They were a real hoot to listen to on
the Atwater..
In the same vein, the 1939 Zenith can always bring back thoughts of what it must of been
like in 1941 to listen live to Japans attack on Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt's fireside chats, etc; the
TV news of the day. all very sad.

 

[j_j]

BS, it's all about playing with that 40 yo antique.
If you really cared about listening to The Music, you'd have modern gear and the best quality mixes-media of each one
that you claim is SO important to you.
That gear what we research here and the reason for this site.
You can write very eloquently J.J. , but you can't BS a street guy.
"So your entire spew is illogical, inaccurate, and insulting."
I know when the smokes being blown, been listening to it all my life.

In short, you're simply here to insult people. Right, I get it.

Your overt dishonesty is telling, though, "you'd have modern gear". First you tell me "you have expensive modern gear which is silly" and then when you find out otherwise for LP's you say "you don't have expensive modern gear so you're wrong". This kind of rhetorical misconduct is nothing more or less than a dishonest, willful attempt at a smear campaign. It's the lamest kind of malicious whipsaw attempt I've seen in a while. So how do I get a modern recording of Stowkowski and the Philidelphia playing "Night on Bald Mountain" like you'd want me to do? Perhaps you have a time machine? Of course, you ALSO assume that my LP gear isn't "top quality". Let me give you a hint here, 30 to 40 year old LP technology is every bit as good as the modern gear, even though it's higher-end mass market. Of course, you also assume I don't have modern gear for modern technology, which is also something reverberating in your own imagination for your own amusement, and since I invent and develop exactly that kind of thing, a professional insult.

The music is independent of the medium. "Night on Bald Mountain" conducted by Stowkowski is still exactly that, regardless of the quality of the recording (which was, by the way, state of the art for its time). An old woman singing Appalachian ballads on a Webcor, transcribed to LP is, likewise, something you can't replace.

So what's your problem, fella? Got out of bed the wrong side this morning? In any case, you've now explicitly accused me of lying and engaging in deceit, and you can now retract that accusation without qualification, and promptly.

 

[j_j]

Why would someone use an LP full of scratches?

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'd have no issue using LPs I know well to judge a system. It should be obvious that the ultimate "accuracy" of a recording has no bearing on being able to make a subjective judgment on the reproduction of material that one knows well.

These aren't even creative straw men anymore.

Yeah, he's moved on to lame whipsaws and the fallacy of the excluded middle, too.

 

[j_j]

Yep.I know each and every recording and media available for the said conductor,I believe I have them all.
But!
The main recommendation here is being true to the source,right?What's that famous source then?
The reel mastering tapes?The ears or the mastering director and people that judge the production going out of a studio?
Am I going to be true to the source listening to the same tube amps,etc,they listened too?

Yeah, and how do you think those aged master tapes sound? I've heard, seen, and watched quite a few attempts at baking tape, recovering material, and "only one try" attempts to get a usable playback to capture digitally. When I hear some other's rantings about "get a modern version" I really suspect that some folks do not understand just how difficult it is to get something even remotely close to the original back from an old master tape that's shedding oxide. DSOTM and Machine Head are both very obvious examples of this, wherein the actual sound quality of the LP is better, not because the CD is digital, but because the master tapes were kaput by the time they were brought out for transcription.

And let's not forget the warehouse fire that destroyed a whole lot of classical, jazz, and rock masters completely. They're gone. Kaput. And for many of those recovered master tapes that still exist, all it takes is a quick listen to hear the disaster that is anything over 7kHz.

And for something I've heard, the "master" is what I heard in the concert hall, not what somebody did in the control room. That's where "stereo", meaning two channel stereo, falls apart completely, but that's an argument for another thread altogether.

 

[AdamG]

Gentlemen, please dial back the aggression and hostility. If you can’t I will be forced to help you. Respect and dignity or don’t reply.

Thank you for your understanding and support.

Extremely SENIOR Members slinging mud at each other is not the behavior we expect. Take a break if your typing in anger and don’t post anything you might regret.

 

[Sal1950]

Gentlemen, please dial back the aggression and hostility. If you can’t I will be forced to help you. Respect and dignity or don’t reply.

Thank you for your understanding and support.

Extremely SENIOR Members slinging mud at each other is not the behavior we expect. Take a break if your typing in anger and don’t post anything you might regret.

No problem Adam

 

[j_j]

Do you mean distortion, LF groove noise, or both?

Particular distortions different in M vs. S (L+R vs. L-R), changes in gain across frequency for L+R vs L-R, mostly, plus some fine structure frequency variations. Noise for the most part is a non-useful thing, although counterphase rumble can increase "width".