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Whats better than naim muso 2 i want to upgrade it? i want reference sound...

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Hi everyone i own naim muso 2, but i am looking to upgrade it, since i dont justify the price tag price/per quality i receive. my unit is still brand new with warranty so i plan to sale it and get something else.

I live in rented place so i dont have big or huge space, do you think kef ls 50 wireless ii is good upgrade option or not?If Kef wireless ls 50 ii is not a good option what you can reccomend i will preffer if possible all in one wireless solution , because my previous set ups was with cables which i dont like cables amps and things which consumes tons of space...other option is KEF R3 ,or perlisten s4s , i am not sure if i will be able to afford them, 2nd option,or kef meta, which i think will be not enough quality for me. i cant hear any of these speakers since they are not sold in my country so i will buy them online and import them from abroad.any other options are welcomed.

i want reference sound example of reference sound speakers are

speakers i mentioned muon,blade,and reference 1 from kef are reference class

muon is 1st, after that blade, and reference 1,they have some common and some different technologies inside..... they are for different budgets and for different rooms and specs...

all of these are 2 way speakers, i am looking for 3 way book shelves speakers which is not common...
 

NiagaraPete

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They are very expensive, old model from year 2017 i cant find them used, only new so not worth the money, also using limited class d amps.
i also think these are 2 way so i am looking for 3 way.
 

NiagaraPete

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They are very expensive, old model from year 2017 i cant find them used, only new so not worth the money, also using limited class d amps.
i also think these are 2 way so i am looking for 3 way.
Current model, Coaxial 3 way, great amps, yes very hard to find used.
Do you know why?
 
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Current model, Coaxial 3 way, great amps, yes very hard to find used.
Do you know why?
Compared to kef and other mass market producers they made and sold
very little amount of speakers.... what do you think of kef reference 1 and kef r3?
 

NiagaraPete

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I’ve only heard the R3. Very good but not like Genelec.
 
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I’ve only heard the R3. Very good but not like Genelec.
R3 is 1/4 of the price of genelec.
and i can use it with any great class a or class a//b amp...
have you ever heard REFERENCE 1 or any other reference from kef? or May be ls 50 wireless ii or ls meta?
Actually genelec this model cost 4.5 times more compared to R3 i really doub its 4.5 times better , in most places in europe is out of stock since its 5 years old model..
 
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Highly advised to read up on Genelec. Plenty of material in this forum
i dont have any place to real life test or compare them in my country.
Are they 4.5 times better compared to R3?
 

NiagaraPete

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Have a look at the 8350, 8340. Kef R3 is not is the same league. I bought a used pair of 8050’s which I like better then the R3. AB amps tons of power.

Look at the review index R3 is near the top. The advantage of Genelec is active, balanced input, great dispersion, low distortion.
 
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Have a look at the 8350, 8340. Kef R3 is not is the same league. I bought a used pair of 8050’s which I like better then the R3. AB amps tons of power.

Look at the review index R3 is near the top. The advantage of Genelec is active, balanced input, great dispersion, low distortion.
For the price of Genelec i can buy brand new Reference 1 from kef for example...
they should be in the same league.
but i also need to spend more money on stands + amp + other things and to increase my budget.... which is not possible into the moment.
 

NiagaraPete

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For the price of Genelec i can buy brand new Reference 1 from kef for example...
they should be in the same league.
but i also need to spend more money on stands + amp + other things and to increase my budget.... which is not possible into the moment.
Okay so in Canada where I am R3’s are 2500 plus amps. 8340’s amps 2 x 150 built in plus they have GLM 3800 pair.
 
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tifune

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It may be helpful to know your definition of 'reference' and what specific qualities you're looking to improve over your current setup. To me it doesn't get much more reference than using monitors of equal standing, plus or minus some SPL and extension, to those which were used during the creation of the content. If it's good enough for the artist, mixer, producer, and mastering engineer, what exactly are you hoping to improve upon besides price?
 

Peluvius

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Hi everyone i own naim muso 2, but i am looking to upgrade it, since i dont justify the price tag price/per quality i receive. my unit is still brand new with warranty so i plan to sale it and get something else.

I live in rented place so i dont have big or huge space, do you think kef ls 50 wireless ii is good upgrade option or not?If Kef wireless ls 50 ii is not a good option what you can reccomend i will preffer if possible all in one wireless solution , because my previous set ups was with cables which i dont like cables amps and things which consumes tons of space...other option is KEF R3 ,or perlisten s4s , i am not sure if i will be able to afford them, 2nd option,or kef meta, which i think will be not enough quality for me. i cant hear any of these speakers since they are not sold in my country so i will buy them online and import them from abroad.any other options are welcomed.

i want reference sound example of reference sound speakers are

speakers i mentioned muon,blade,and reference 1 from kef are reference class

muon is 1st, after that blade, and reference 1,they have some common and some different technologies inside..... they are for different budgets and for different rooms and specs...

all of these are 2 way speakers, i am looking for 3 way book shelves speakers which is not common...

As a general guide, professional studios use reference monitors. They do this because the quality of their work is directly impacted by the quality of the loudspeakers they use.

I am not aware of any of the brands or types of speakers you mention being used widely as a professional reference.

Looking for reference grade speakers then qualifying 2 way/3 way does not make sense, why is that more important than the quality of the sound?

Genelec, Neuman, Hedd, PMC, Dynaudio etc....
 

HarmonicTHD

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The KEFs R3 are also very good speakers albeit passive. In case your haven’t found the reviews yet.

Thread 'KEF R3 Speaker Review'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-r3-speaker-review.12021/

So are the LS50 wireless and active however they require a sub to get low.
Thread 'KEF LS50 Bookshelf Speaker Review'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-ls50-bookshelf-speaker-review.11144/

For a lack of better indicator you can use the preferences score as listed here to compare speakers. (But take it with a grain of salt. The ongoing debate goes that only a difference in score of about 1 is really significant).


Genelec 8350 ca 7
KEF Reference 1 Meta. ca. 6.7
KEF R3 ca. 6.5
KEF LS50 wireless ca 6

So it depends all a bit on your budget. Your existing equipment eg if you already have a decent amp to drive passive speakers. Maybe a bit on local service partners - passive speakers have by nature no electronics which can fail, although Genelec is good quality, but even they are not infallible.
 

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So I stopped posting here... but I'm going to make an exception because you really need some guidance.
Firstly, don't think of this as "upgrading the Muso". You have a good product (if expensive) for what it does. You're instead embarking on buying something which still plays music, but in a different way.
Secondly, put away those preferences. You don't need class A or AB or D specifically, for example. Nor do you particularly need three way bookshelves. You need good performing ones.
Thirdly, forget "reference sound", at least for now. You can think of your new system in one of two ways - something that plays music well for you, or a platform that plays music well and allows you to pursue what people here call "the hobby", chasing improvements and different experiences.

So, onto the things that are actually important to consider
1) The science around preference and the type of system. You can chase up a lot of that here, but essentially most people in blind tests have shown strong statistical preferences towards certain things.
The elephant in the room is surround. People have been shown to prefer immersive surround to stereo. My advice is to at least consider that. If you are building a dedicated room, this should be on your list. If you are putting your system in a busy family living room, surround is a lot harder. I have stereo in those circumstances. Don't forget that a good surround system can still happily play stereo,

2) Also on this site you will find discussion around loudspeakers and the loudspeaker/room interface. Search it out. But the important thing to consider, again, is use case. Some speakers are designed to be listened to close up, others from further away. It doesn't matter how good a speaker is, if you force it into a situation where the design is inappropriate
Some loudspeakers work better in small rooms than others. You may want a different setup for you listening in a sweet spot between the speakers, or your family and friends dotted around the room. You'll get better results if the room is treated - this can be dedicated audio treatment, or just a matter of good curtains over windows and a thick rug on the floor to control the most damaging reflections. Getting this aspect right is probably the most important part of the process. What the science around preference tells us about speakers is that speakers that measure flat anechoically, and have low distortion, are preferred. But this is probably the weakest point from that viewpoint, because the room is so important.
You'll limit your choices a lot if you insist on "wireless" speakers - and all will be active, so still require a mains lead. Better to consider placement, ways to hide the cables, and reducing the count. An all in one streamer/DAC/amp; may be a better way to go, and accept the cables to the speakers. That reduces the count (using wifi) to three wires, one power lead and two speaker cables. Enough?

3) Electronics. Here, most people prefer low distortion devices in blind tests. However, our hearing is such that we only have to reject the worst measuring items to achieve that.
Theres more to it than that though... I would recommend starting with a cheap laptop, a streaming service, any DAC outside of the poor category recommended here, and an integrated amp (of any class or type) that will drive your choice of speaker cleanly. That gives you a platform that you can take you in multiple directions if you want to pursue further upgrades - software, EQ, component upgrades, etc., and will be perfectly good enough in terms of sound. Active speakers of the right type will do just as well.

4) You. The first and stupidest question to ask is, will you be listening reasonably often, and intently, to the music? If you aren't, there's not much point chasing the ultimate. Secondly, you need to consider your visual and tactile preferences. You will listen not only with your ears, but with your brain and your eyes. If you can't stand the look of the speakers in front of you you will listen less, and that's not a good thing. If you hate the activity of choosing and playing your music, you will listen less. My partner doesn't like choosing music on a screen, so my system has a disc player. You need to know what maintenance you are prepared to put in. Some components like manual bias valve amps require regular maintenance. If you want a system that you can leave in place for years and just play, choose with that in mind. In that case, an all in one product or active speakers may suit.

People here will mostly push you towards equipment that measures well, and most people prefer such. You have to start your search with such systems. If you really can't stand them and prefer a different sound, don't be afraid to buy such. The test is whether you can listen to music regularly and intently to improve your life, not whether you have a "reference system" or "high SINAD". It's just that we understand that for the vast majority of people, the two are related.

5) Avoid the "audiophile" for now. You can add an LP player later if you want, but it isn't needed. You only need basic cables. For bookshelf/standmount speakers, you will need the right sort of support, but don't assume it has to be the most expensive. You don't need fancy cables, and if somebody tries you to sell something that seems odd to you, then don't buy it, no matter how many recommendations it gets on different forums etc.

So? To really recommend something to you, we need to know a fair bit. Start by posting your room size and circumstances, likely usage, budget and where you are located. Then instead of an argument about possibly irrelevant KEF and Genelec models, people can point you to a practical solution that will have you listening to a lot of music from day one, which is the real point.

Finally, most of those KEF models you posted are in fact three way, with side facing woofers and coaxial mid/tweeters to take into account.

I'm going back to not posting again now before I get sucked in again... hope this gives you a bit of perspective.
 
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Okay so in Canada where I am R3’s are 2500 plus amps. 8340’s amps 2 x 150 built in plus they have GLM 3800 pair.
Genelec doesnt have dealer in bulgaria and their europe dealership is very limited i already spoke with them here is example
8351b cost around 4000gbp -
KEF R3 used cost 800 gbp. just an example.


It may be helpful to know your definition of 'reference' and what specific qualities you're looking to improve over your current setup. To me it doesn't get much more reference than using monitors of equal standing, plus or minus some SPL and extension, to those which were used during the creation of the content. If it's good enough for the artist, mixer, producer, and mastering engineer, what exactly are you hoping to improve upon besides price?

Some of the reference speakers are Muon,blade series from kef and ,Kef reference 1-3--5 .... all of these are amazing speakers starting from the most expensive ones to the cheaper ones unfortunately all of them are outside my budget so i am looking for something 2-3way with simular qualities like these...
i plan to listen to music and i want some extremely good upgrade over naim muso 2.



The KEFs R3 are also very good speakers albeit passive. In case your haven’t found the reviews yet.

Thread 'KEF R3 Speaker Review'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-r3-speaker-review.12021/

So are the LS50 wireless and active however they require a sub to get low.
Thread 'KEF LS50 Bookshelf Speaker Review'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-ls50-bookshelf-speaker-review.11144/

For a lack of better indicator you can use the preferences score as listed here to compare speakers. (But take it with a grain of salt. The ongoing debate goes that only a difference in score of about 1 is really significant).


Genelec 8350 ca 7
KEF Reference 1 Meta. ca. 6.7
KEF R3 ca. 6.5
KEF LS50 wireless ca 6

So it depends all a bit on your budget. Your existing equipment eg if you already have a decent amp to drive passive speakers. Maybe a bit on local service partners - passive speakers have by nature no electronics which can fail, although Genelec is good quality, but even they are not infallible.
From this chart which you have shared with me GENELEC i cant hear or afford ,
kef reference 1 meta will be great out of my budget 9000 euro,
so the other option is KEF R3, which i can find at decent price! :))


Galliardist

thanks i have 30 m2 room i live in rented place to answer all of your questions ,
So? To really recommend something to you, we need to know a fair bit. Start by posting your room size and circumstances, likely usage, budget and where you are located. Then instead of an argument about possibly irrelevant KEF and Genelec models, people can point you to a practical solution that will have you listening to a lot of music from day one, which is the real point.

i will use speakers for music only /mostly, maximum budget is 5000 euro and includes the amp and everything, so far i see the KEF is cool speaker for me....
Genelec again doesnt have dealers around and it cost 4-5 times more compared to kef. if we dont count reference 1 they are much closer price.
 

tifune

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Some of the reference speakers are Muon,blade series from kef and ,Kef reference 1-3--5 .... all of these are amazing speakers starting from the most expensive ones to the cheaper ones unfortunately all of them are outside my budget so i am looking for something 2-3way with simular qualities like these...
i plan to listen to music and i want some extremely good upgrade over naim muso 2.

Used Kef R3's are probably the best value in speakers today. They, and the Revel Performa series which probably aren't readily available in Bulgaria, are the lost stop before diminishing returns smash down far beyond reason. However you keep mentioning the muso 2 yet are asking about speakers, so it's all a bit confusing.
 
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Used Kef R3's are probably the best value in speakers today. They, and the Revel Performa series which probably aren't readily available in Bulgaria, are the lost stop before diminishing returns smash down far beyond reason. However you keep mentioning the muso 2 yet are asking about speakers, so it's all a bit confusing.
Kef r3 is available widely used in europe so price is 800euro for them , i dont plan to buy from my country since no product or dealerships exists here , what amp i should use with r3 should i go with hegel or something else?
 

tifune

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Kef r3 is available widely used in europe so price is 800euro for them , i dont plan to buy from my country since no product or dealerships exists here , what amp i should use with r3 should i go with hegel or something else?

1ET400 best, NC252MP good enough. You probably won't hear a difference unless you turn it up loud and/or sit far away
 
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