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What is a resonance?

aarons915

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After some discussion in another thread I thought it might be good to discuss what a speaker resonance is as there seems to be some confusion about the term as it relates to speaker systems. Most irregularities in speakers are loosely defined by Dr. Toole as a resonance while in the classic mechanical sense may not technically be a "resonance". The way I've understood it is that anything that causes a deviation from neutral over a wide range of angles can be considered a resonance, of course it can be from many causes but the audible effect is a speaker that sounds less neutral regardless of what we want to call it. If I'm the one confused let's discuss it and maybe myself and others can learn something.

I'm going to post a few quotes to go into more detail about how Dr. Toole classifies and clarifies a resonance in speaker systems.

In Sound Reproduction: loudspeakers and Rooms 9.6.2 he says:

In sound reproduction, resonances are to be avoided. Added resonances alter the timbral character of voices and instrument in programs; they add coloration. The task of a sound reproduction system is to accurately portray the panorama of resonances and other sounds in the original sources, not to “editorialize” by adding its own.

In measurements of loudspeakers, it is common to find evidence of resonances, the normal clues being identifiable peaks in frequency response curves. In a single frequency response curve, a peak could be evidence of a resonance, or it could be the result of acoustical interference (as in the crossover region when two transducers are active). If a peak persists in a display of curves measured at different incident angles, on- and off-axis, it is highly probable that it is evidence of a resonance and not the result of acoustical interference that would be different in measurements made at different angles.

Then some good discussion in the What Science Shows thread over at AVS, I'll post a few relevant quotes when Dr. Toole was asked to clarify what a resonance is:

To Resonate or not to Resonate, That is the Question?

Apologies to Shakespeare . . .

This discussion has drifted into an area of literal interpretations of classical definitions with some semantics thrown in. If there is a shallow hump in a frequency response, in literal terms it is a very low-Q resonance, implying a mechanical, electrical or acoustical system with a "favored" frequency range. In a physical system as complex as a loudspeaker it may sometimes be difficult to decide what is happening. Crossovers are equalizers, by any other name, that interact with transducers having inherently non-flat tendencies - the result is a combination of both electrical and mechanical elements. Equalizers can be resonators just as surely as acoustical cavities, enclosure panels and cone breakup. So a frequency response feature may be partly mechanical and partly electrical , but the end result can be that of a resonance having Q. Achieving a desirable flat on-axis sound using passive or active networks can result in non-flat off-axis behavior because transducers have frequency-dependent directivity. In a room the result is that even with flat direct sound, the early reflected and later reflected sounds may exhibit emphasis over a range of frequencies that could forgivably be interpreted as a low-Q resonance.

As discussed many times in this thread, transducers are inherently minimum-phase devices, so electrical EQ can modify the performance of mechanical resonances - a huge advantage for active loudspeakers or those for which accurate anechoic data are available.

In the crossover between a 6- to 8-inch woofer and a 1-inch tweeter, a directivity mismatch at crossover is unavoidable. Above crossover, the tweeter has much wider dispersion than the woofer, so there is an energy rise over a wide frequency range. Is this a resonance? Technically not, in the dictionary definition sense. However, there is a broad hump in radiated energy, so perceptually it may appear to be so. Figure 4.13 shows such an example where even crude room curves were adequate to recognize the energy excess in an above-crossover energy excess and attenuate it. Because wide bandwidth (low-Q) phenomena are detected at very small deviations there was a clear improvement in perceived sound quality even though medium and higher-Q "real" resonances were essentially unchanged. Addressing all of the "resonances" was not surprisingly the best.

So, don't get hung up on semantics. Deviations from a linear frequency response are all describable as "resonances" if one chooses to. Broadband trends are very low-Q, narrower trends, medium Q, and so on. Even a bass tone control is an opportunity to manipulate a "resonance" - in this case the hump that develops above the low cutoff frequency which, depending on the system design will have a Q.

Narrow dips are usually the result of destructive acoustical interference and are usually audibly innocuous because they change with direction/position. Broader dips can be interpreted as anti-resonances if one chooses to, whether there is an associated frequency selective absorption process or not. Mostly not.

All fodder for more discussion :)



...​
In the crossover between a 6- to 8-inch woofer and a 1-inch tweeter, a directivity mismatch at crossover is unavoidable. Above crossover, the tweeter has much wider dispersion than the woofer, so there is an energy rise over a wide frequency range. Is this a resonance? Technically not, in the dictionary definition sense. ...​
motrek said:
If we're being pedantic, how is this not a resonance? An increase of output over a frequency range (wide or not) seems like it would be the dictionary definition of a resonance?

Floyd Toole said:
I guess it depends on the dictionary. In my engineering schooling resonances were associated with mechanical, acoustical or electrical systems that by virtue of mass, compliance and damping - in the case of mechanical resonances or their analogs for the others - combined to favor specific frequencies by differing amounts.

The effect of these in loudspeakers is an emphasized output over a range of frequencies, so feel free to call anything that has that effect a resonance. The perceptual system will never know nor care :)

EDIT: The reason it really doesn't matter is that humans do not hear the ringing, we hear the spectral hump. At low Q there really is no significant ringing in any event.

Does this mean if I boost frequencies via my AVR’s equalizer DSP feature, I’m adding acoustic resonances?​
Yes. As I said, because loudspeaker transducers are minimum-phase devices one can use electrical parametric EQ to attenuate the mechanical resonances in transducers - using anechoic data of course. So, if you add a hump to an otherwise neutral/resonance free speaker you have added a resonance. This is why it is crucial to pay attention to what "room equalizers" are doing. If they "see" a ripple in a measured curve caused by acoustical interference of direct and reflected sound, and try to flatten it, they may be adding a resonance and degrading a good loudspeaker.

Floyd Toole said:

I have not been adequately thorough in my explanations, obviously, because there can be fluctuations in frequency response on a single measurement axis caused by acoustical interference. These are audibly innocuous because they change with mic location and spatially average out. This is the reason why we focus most of our attention on the listening window data because it is sufficiently spatially averaged to attenuate evidence of interference, so that one has a chance of identifying those bumps attributable to resonances, which are the dominant sources of coloration in loudspeakers. Those bumps that persist through the increasing spatial averages of "early reflections" and ultimately "sound power" are unquestionably resonances having perceptual consequences. Whether they are solely attributable to the "classic" mass/spring kind of resonance does not matter. As I have said all loudspeakers have some amount of built in equalization - the crossover network, which often incorporates narrow band filters to shape the frequency response. Active digital networks are much more capable than the passive ones. Then there is frequency-dependent transducer directivity that modifies the off-axis radiated energy vs frequency compared to direct sound. The audible consequences of this depends significantly on the listening setup.

All of this and more is in the 3rd edition. It really is not complicated.
 
Why not looking up on any knowledge source, the term resonance is well and uniquely defined:

Resonance is a phenomenon in which an oscillator responds most strongly to a driving force that matches its own natural frequency of vibration.

https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Conceptual_Physics/Book:_Conceptual_Physics_(Crowell)/04:_Conservation_of_Momentum/4.03:_Resonance

As I had written in the original discussion thread, the key for a resonance to happen is that the excitation frequency of a system which is able to resonate is close to one of the systems natural (eigen) frequencies and the result is that the amplitude of the oscillation increases over time as there is a energy transfer to the oscillating system over time, same as that the oscillating system continues to oscillate when the external excitatiion has stopped. Such is written also in the above linked example:

For example, suppose a child is on a playground swing with a natural frequency of 1 Hz. That is, if you pull the child away from equilibrium, release her, and then stop doing anything for a while, she'll oscillate at 1 Hz. If there was no friction, as we assumed in section 2.5, then the sum of her gravitational and kinetic energy would remain constant, and the amplitude would be exactly the same from one oscillation to the next. However, friction is going to convert these forms of energy into heat, so her oscillations would gradually die out. To keep this from happening, you might give her a push once per cycle, i.e., the frequency of your pushes would be 1 Hz, which is the same as the swing's natural frequency. As long as you stay in rhythm, the swing responds quite well. If you start the swing from rest, and then give pushes at 1 Hz, the swing's amplitude rapidly builds up, as in figure a, until after a while it reaches a steady state in which friction removes just as much energy as you put in over the course of one cycle.

Toole correctly writes that just a hump in the frequency response due to for the directivity mismatch isn't technically a resonance and uses the term in quotation marks "resonance". If he wants to call them all "resonances" its his thing, it is not correct though for the cases the conditions (excitation frequency close to natural frequency) are not met and thus described time energy transfer behaviour (increasing and decreasing oscillation amplitude) isn't seen.
 
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Toole correctly writes that just a hump in the frequency response due to for the directivity mismatch isn't technically a resonance and uses the term in quotation marks "resonance". If he wants to call them all "resonances" its his thing, it is not correct though for the cases the conditions (excitation frequency close to natural frequency) are not met and thus described time energy transfer behaviour (increasing and decreasing oscillation amplitude) isn't seen.

Yes I understood you today to mean the classical mechanical resonance whereas Toole seems to use the term to describe any frequency response peak or dip. I understand that if you were designing a speaker that had a peak you may want to know whether it's caused by a transducer resonance, cabinet resonance, directivity mismatch, etc and simply calling it a resonance wouldn't be helpful in finding the problem but to us end users I don't think it matters much since the negative impact on the sound is what we're concerned with. I'm not sure if acoustic resonance or system resonance would be more accurate in describing the term but for better or worse decades of research has referred to the anomalies as resonances so I think it would be confusing to start calling them something different now. Since speaker resonances can be classified by a frequency, amplitude and Q factor it just kind of fits even if they don't have any ringing in the time domain.
 
decades of research has referred to the anomalies as resonances
Do they? I only see Toole naming them so... I also don't see a real advantage of putting things under the same category which clearly aren't and behave differently. For example I never see anyone calling the baffle step bump in the FR as a resonance.
so I think it would be confusing to start calling them something different now
Due to above and below reasons I see it exactly the opposite way.
Since speaker resonances can be classified by a frequency, amplitude and Q factor it just kind of fits even if they don't have any ringing in the time domain.
As said for example a FR bump due to the overlapping of 2 drivers cannot really be described by above parameters of a resonator and approximating its shape using an inverse PEQ which is in the end nothing else like an electric oscillator which resonates and "sucks" away energy in time, doesn't fully compensate it in time domain as one is time independent and the other not.
 
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Yes I understood you today to mean the classical mechanical resonance whereas Toole seems to use the term to describe any frequency response peak or dip.
I don't think that that is actually the case. Toole has been quite careful in his descriptions of resonances; for example: "Above crossover, the tweeter has much wider dispersion than the woofer, so there is an energy rise over a wide frequency range. Is this a resonance? Technically not, in the dictionary definition sense. However, there is a broad hump in radiated energy, so perceptually it may appear to be so." In essence, I think that Toole is saying is that a listener may perceive a non-resonance to sound similar to an actual resonance, but that doesn't make it a resonance.
 
I don't think that that is actually the case. Toole has been quite careful in his descriptions of resonances; for example: "Above crossover, the tweeter has much wider dispersion than the woofer, so there is an energy rise over a wide frequency range. Is this a resonance? Technically not, in the dictionary definition sense. However, there is a broad hump in radiated energy, so perceptually it may appear to be so." In essence, I think that Toole is saying is that a listener may perceive a non-resonance to sound similar to an actual resonance, but that doesn't make it a resonance.

Right I understand not all "resonances" are true resonators but he also goes on to say that the perceptual system will never no nor care because we don't hear the ringing anyway, we hear the spectral bump. In Toole and Olive's study on "The Modification of Timbre by Resonances: Perception and Measurement" some of the references do call them resonances but some call them things like "frequency response irregularities", that might be more appropriate but it's become the norm to label them resonance whether there is ringing or not. Amir labels the CTA-2034 graphs with resonances and I haven't heard anyone challenge him yet.

As said for example a FR bump due to the overlapping of 2 drivers cannot really be described by above parameters of a resonator and approximating its shape using an inverse PEQ which is in the end nothing else like an electric oscillator which resonates and "sucks" away energy in time, doesn't fully compensate it in time domain as one is time independent and the other not.

Again I'm not disagreeing about the technical sense of it being a resonator but like in our original discussion of the LS50's bump around 2k, all I was saying is that I had to filter it out or it would be harsh and a bit fatiguing. If it were a true resonance it wouldn't change the fact that you apply a filter to remove it and the research says that it will perceptually sound the same since we don't hear the ringing. The more important point that I have taken away from the research on resonances are the thresholds of audibility to assist me in choosing a speaker and applying EQ, not the terminology of what we call these peaks, dips, bumps, irregularities, excess energy, resonances...etc.
 
What do the physics professors think of the term Perceptual resonance lol?
 
but it's become the norm to label them resonance whether there is ringing or not.
Again, has it? I haven't seen neither a scientific article mixing them up nor a review from Stereophile etc. doing so and even if someone erroneously would, would that make it better?
Amir labels the CTA-2034 graphs with resonances and I haven't heard anyone challenge him yet.
I think to remember that at least at one review one bump was discussed if it is due to a resonance or not. But if even not, I don't really understand this discussion and your urge? to name every irregularity as a resonance, what do you gain from that? Why not correctly calling them all humps, dips or irregularities where each one it has to be investigated if its due to resonance or not?
Again I'm not disagreeing about the technical sense of it being a resonator but like in our original discussion of the LS50's bump around 2k, all I was saying is that I had to filter it out or it would be harsh and a bit fatiguing.
And again I never questioned using a filter there which I also do on my own LS50, just you naming it automatically a resonance. In a normal forum I probably would have ignored it, but since here most people care about a deeper understanding of the underlying principles I find it important to differentiate.
 
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Again, has it? I haven't seen neither a scientific article mixing them up nor a review from Stereophile etc. doing so and even if someone erroneously would, would that make it better?
I just read through the Modification of timbre of resonances again and they don't mention the definition of a resonance or the need to investigate if it's a true resonance or a peak by another cause, if you've noticed some of the measurements in Dr. Toole's books he mentions peaks as resonances as well, I have no clue if they are all technically resonances but I doubt it. Of course that doesn't make it right but that's probably why I started using the term interchangeably with peaks.

I think to remember that at least at one review one bump was discussed if it is due to a resonance or not. But if even not, I don't really understand this discussion and your urge? to name every irregularity as a resonance, what do you gain from that? Why not correctly calling them all humps, dips or irregularities where each one it has to be investigated if its due to resonance or not?

Because perceptually it doesn't matter and I'm not that anal I guess? I do use the terms interchangeably sometimes and I see that technically that is not always correct but again I don't care what they are caused by, all I'm concerned with is the audible effect of said peak so that I can EQ it. I'm not going to go in and fix a cabinet or driver resonance by redesigning a speaker, I'm just going to EQ it. A speaker designer may want to investigate the cause during development but that's a different story.

And again I never questioned using a filter there which I also do on my own LS50, just you naming it automatically a resonance. In a normal forum I probably would have ignored it, but since here most people care about a deeper understanding of the underlying principles I find it important to differentiate.

So I'll fully admit I'm not great at reading CSD plots but it's pretty hard to find a good one for the LS50, the one on this site seems to show nothing and I'm not sure if that's due to the low level or what but the one in the LS50 whitepaper doesn't look super clean to me around that range. How much ringing are we expecting anyway for a relatively low Q bump? I see the diagram in Sound Reproduction showing that as you approach Q=1 there is very little so isn't it possible that a typical loudspeaker peak is simply not going to have much decay?

Either way it is still a system that you can excite with a neutral input signal and the output is excess energy that can be described by a frequency, amplitude and Q factor so it doesn't seem like the worst offense someone could commit with terminology.
 
I was checking the R3 Spectral decay since I've been messing with EQ'ing them lately and it seems there is a bit of excess energy evident in all of the areas where there is a slight peak in frequency response(mostly 700 and 2700Hz), even though they're low in level, again I believe expected because of the low Q. I also checked some other reviews and the sharper high Q peaks do usually show more energy as expected. Are we sure this isn't just a case of real life examples not perfectly matching up with the textbook definitions? Here are both examples:

R3.JPG


elac.JPG
 
Of course that doesn't make it right but that's probably why I started using the term interchangeably with peaks.
Again, since you know now that not every hump is a resonance, what is the purpose of this discussion? To create an alibi for yourself or others of using a wrong term to feel better? Why just not better naming them bumps, humps, irregularities etc. instead which is correct when its not obviously a resonance?
Because perceptually it doesn't matter and I'm not that anal I guess? I do use the terms interchangeably sometimes and I see that technically that is not always correct but again I don't care what they are caused by
Well, that's up to you, but you must be also prepared to get some headwind in a forum that is called Audio Research Science, like for example when calling any non-linear distortion harmonic distortion, even if its not the case.

So I'll fully admit I'm not great at reading CSD plots but it's pretty hard to find a good one for the LS50, the one on this site seems to show nothing and I'm not sure if that's due to the low level or what but the one in the LS50 whitepaper doesn't look super clean to me around that range. How much ringing are we expecting anyway for a relatively low Q bump?
On the original thread I showed you the main reason of that big bump which is a result of the not optimal curvatures of the individual drivers at the crossover frequency and not a resonance, that's why you also see anything in the CSD:

1597222187301.png


I had also posted a nearfield measurement I had done on the LS50 where you see no real delay at that region.

1597222441238.png


Either way it is still a system that you can excite with a neutral input signal and the output is excess energy that can be described by a frequency, amplitude and Q factor so it doesn't seem like the worst offense someone could commit with terminology.
Again, not every bump like for example the baffle step bump or the one due to the addition of 2 drivers can be really described with a PEQ and also not perfectly corrected with it, we just approximate filters that have a similar shape to their steady state.
 
I had also posted a nearfield measurement I had done on the LS50 where you see no real delay at that region.

View attachment 77731


Again, not every bump like for example the baffle step bump or the one due to the addition of 2 drivers can be really described with a PEQ and also not perfectly corrected with it, we just approximate filters that have a similar shape to their steady state.

Yes but the decay shows around 100 ms in room, I assumed the room affects swamped the actual results, don't you need to time gate an in room measurement for the CSD to be valid? I realize where the extra energy in that region from the LS50 comes from but it's not a peak on-axis, the evidence of a resonance is that the 2k region has a peak even far off-axis. Then you've got some decay in KEF's own CSD that isn't there past 2k. I will be more careful labeling peaks as resonances but I'm just saying it's not so clear cut.
 
Yes but the decay shows around 100 ms in room, I assumed the room affects swamped the actual results, don't you need to time gate an in room measurement for the CSD to be valid?
By doing the measurement at only 5 cm from the driver the level of the driver is much higher so you blend out relatively more the room effects, after 100 ms of course the room starts to dominate from level point of view.

By the way one last thing I wanted to add just to have covered the topic from theory point of view is that resonances due to their energy transfer phenomena show not only a irregularity in the output amplitude but also a jump/wiggle the output phase and also a wiggle in the input, thus the impedance and its phase.

As an example for the obvious Elac Debut 2.0 resonance at 700 Hz you posted above both at the impedance and its phase a wiggle can be observed:

1597273701112.png


(unfortunately there are no output phase measurements).
 
On the original thread I showed you the main reason of that big bump which is a result of the not optimal curvatures of the individual drivers at the crossover frequency and not a resonance, that's why you also see anything in the CSD:

I had also posted a nearfield measurement I had done on the LS50 where you see no real delay at that region.

I was actually thinking about this a bit more and it is intriguing, I'm not trying to be argumentative believe me, I do appreciate you making me think about this more and I am learning a lot. I wonder if the fact that a CSD is typically done on-axis would hide that 2k resonance (if it were a resonance) in the LS50 if the peak only happens off-axis? I sadly just sold my LS50's so I can't try that myself.

The other interesting thing since you brought up phase is that I recall it all being related since loudspeakers are mostly minimum-phase devices, so it makes sense that a resonance would show up in both. This is the same for the impulse response so in the case of the LS50 any look at the on-axis response including the CSD should be smooth in that area but starting around 30 degrees is where the 2k peak is well defined in the Soundstage measurements. Based on that relationship between frequency response and impulse response, by definition there will be associated ringing in that range and I think that is why most of these peaks in measurements do show up in the CSD plot for most speakers measured. Maybe the LS50 is odd in that it is smooth on-axis and the measurements don't all show a peak off-axis, the ASR measurements don't show much evidence of it at all, except maybe slightly in the sound power measurement.
 
I was actually thinking about this a bit more and it is intriguing, I'm not trying to be argumentative believe me, I do appreciate you making me think about this more and I am learning a lot. I wonder if the fact that a CSD is typically done on-axis would hide that 2k resonance (if it were a resonance) in the LS50 if the peak only happens off-axis? I sadly just sold my LS50's so I can't try that myself.
It is true that as you say if a resonance peak would not appear on axis also the corresponding on axis CSD measurement also wouldn't show that, which is often an issue on distortion where drivers can show different/higher distortion off axis. On the other hand the chances for a significant resonance to completely disappear on axis is rather small as its usually a mechanical mode / break up that should be measurable in all directions. Also the analysis of the impedance like I showed above wouldn't hide such as that doesn't depend on direction.

Since few weeks I have replaced my LS50 with some KH 120 at my desktop system and so I have them for now in the cellar, but when I get time and mood to "play" again with them I will make some nearfield CSD measurements also on other axes although I don't really expect to see something very different there.
 
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