what does measuring an amp tell you about how it sounds Nothing!! Nothing at all!

[Proton]

I seem to have been censored from a YouTube channel called:
Pursuit Perfect System

A few days ago I stumbled upon his channel where he reviews some very expensive amps. But he never used test equipment on the amp videos I watched of his. I did see he did used test equipment on speakers, but not on amps. Note: I did not watch all of his videos, not even close, but from his replies it seems he doesn't for amps.

After some back and forth discussion he replies with:
"I am one of the only reviewers who backs up EVERYTHING he says, EVERYTHING !! "
"what does measuring an amp tell you about how it sounds Nothing!! Nothing at all"

Another YouTuber: New Record Day
He recently reviewed a FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR DAC $$$$!!
Huh -Really???
We are to take his word (or rather eloquently worded wordS) on how Incredible this DAC sounds without using any test equipment other than his ears??

Every YT channel and forum I go to seems people believe fancy UBER expensive DAC, AMPS and cables making a HUGE difference (compared to decent equipment). But they almost never test their amps, DAC and cables. Instead they just spew out emotional feelings they get when they listen and "look" at the pretty equipment that "cost more = automatically sounds better".

I just found this Audio Science Review and it is refreshing to see a place that actually does TESTING using Science and Test Equipment instead of just using their ears. By the time a tester switches components to another they want to compare, they are going to start forgetting how the former equipment sounded, more and more so as times goes. Sure, you need to listen to the equipment too. But test records will remain. Whatever happened to the days when magazines would publish tons of amp specs from using test equipment?? Back in the 70s and 80s, audio magazines would always publish them.

 

[raistlin65]

Welcome to ASR! You definitely found the right place given your criticism of those YouTubers.

It seems like many people won't even bother to look at good written reviews anymore. They go straight to YouTube.

They want to see a video of the product, and they want somebody to talk to them about it. They want that personal connection with the reviewer more than they want useful information.

 

[FrantzM]

Welcome @Proton !!

Here they also test $15,000 DACs ...
spoiler alert:

It had worse performance than a $9.. No typo: NINE US dollars Apple dongle ...

 

[valerianf]

"what does measuring an amp tell you about how it sounds Nothing!! Nothing at all"
Well, some nuance is needed there.
I am a fan of ASR review and I believe that lab measurement is a pre requirement to any serious testing.
But it is not sufficient : it will never tell you how the product sound.
You need an exercised listener (a professional musician or sound engineer) to make a long listening session and give its advice.
It is very rare to get both testing in the same review.

 

[weasels]

I watched one of that dude's videos. A lot of subjective and flowery language and not much else. I don't necessarily mind some subjectivity, but at least have a cat like Z has in his videos.

 

[Vini darko]

Well a £15,000 dac better sound of magic and miracles

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

"what does measuring an amp tell you about how it sounds Nothing!! Nothing at all"
Well, some nuance is needed there.
I am a fan of ASR review and I believe that lab measurement is a pre requirement to any serious testing.
But it is not sufficient : it will never tell you how the product sound.
You need an exercised listener (a professional musician or sound engineer) to make a long listening session and give its advice.
It is very rare to get both testing in the same review.

professional sound engineers are human beings just like the rest of us and they are subject to all the same cognitive bias issues the rest of us fall victim to. And as far as professional musicians go, I wouldn't trust their gear evaluations any more than I would the average person on the street. Any gear evaluations that are based upon the traditional method of hooking up the new piece of equipment, listening to it for a while and then making an evaluation based on ones memory of what other equipment sounded like in comparison is fundamentally un-trustworthy and of very limited usefulness.

 

[BillG]

Well, some nuance is needed there

Yes, the nuance needed with amps and DACs is that they shouldn't sound like anything at all when properly engineered as that's not their function. When we witness some vendor talking about "voicing" their electronics other than effects processors - I'm looking at you, PS Audio - they're making an excuse for poor engineering and running a confidence game on potential consumers to cover it.

 

[raif71]

 

[raif71]

Welcome to ASR! You definitely found the right place given your criticism of those YouTubers.

It seems like many people won't even bother to look at good written reviews anymore. They go straight to YouTube.

They want to see a video of the product, and they want somebody to talk to them about it. They want that personal connection with the reviewer more than they want useful information.

I like getting useful information from multiple sources, here, head-fi etc and from YouTubers

 

[Vini darko]

I like getting useful information from multiple sources, here, head-fi etc and from YouTubers

Same here. Listen to lot's of good advice , then do whatever I see fit anyway

 

[q3cpma]

Honest advice: try to imagine how better your life would be if you didn't watch YouTube and its time consuming attention whores. Even when it's an honest endeavour, the video medium is just a way to dumb down content or attract concentration deficient lowbrows, compared to well structured text with images; why do you think publications aren't done in this format?

You can criticize all you want, but in the end, they're living rent-free in your head.

 

[Cbdb2]

Heres a good one. If an interconnect used as an RF antennae (plugged into the antenae input of your reciever) picks up a radio signal its a bad interconnect. There, all the proof you need that cables make a difference. What a moron.

 

[fieldcar]

Heres a good one. If an interconnect used as an RF antennae (plugged into the antenae input of your reciever) picks up a radio signal its a bad interconnect. There, all the proof you need that cables make a difference. What a moron.

What? Why don't you like twisted pair attenuation above 30MHz? Personally, I hate the 0.0000000026dB noise my speaker cables give off when they are not connected to my amp. Time to learn how to braid! ( /s of course)

 

[Killingbeans]

It seems like many people won't even bother to look at good written reviews anymore. They go straight to YouTube.

A lot of them seem to forget that YouTube is all about the views and the likes. P. T. Barnum would have loved it!

I like to use YouTube to get a sense of the physical proportions of a product and to see how it looks/works in motion.

"what does measuring an amp tell you about how it sounds Nothing!! Nothing at all"
Well, some nuance is needed there.
I am a fan of ASR review and I believe that lab measurement is a pre requirement to any serious testing.
But it is not sufficient : it will never tell you how the product sound.
You need an exercised listener (a professional musician or sound engineer) to make a long listening session and give its advice.
It is very rare to get both testing in the same review.

Not a proper scientific study, but still food for thought

 

[Jdunk54nl]

"
You need an exercised listener (a professional musician or sound engineer) to make a long listening session and give its advice.
It is very rare to get both testing in the same review.

Ya, Floyd's research would disagree with the musician or sound engineer but agree with trained listeners, which they did in some very quick (relatively) ways and the results were great when the listeners were trained. Musicians and sound engineers were not better than others.

 

[magicscreen]

Not a proper scientific study, but still food for thought

Have they set up properly the room/speakers before the test so they can hear clearly the difference between the two amps?
Look at this picture, how "precise scientific" room acoustic.

 

[Mulder]

"what does measuring an amp tell you about how it sounds Nothing!! Nothing at all"

I understand that this is a common objection in many different forums that deal with HiFi, ie that you can not measure how a certain equipment sounds. I believe that this is based on a complete misunderstanding. Of course, you can not measure how something sounds. What is measured are electrical signals or other properties in the form of various deviations, etc. What we ultimately hear in the form of sound is when all signals have been converted into physical sound waves. What we measure is the equipment's ability to reproduce the source signal as accurately as possible. We then know that when distortion or other errors are below a certain level, then they are not audible. Then we have equipment that reproduces the signal source correctly. But many do not want such equipment, but want equipment that colors the sound. But then this is also not possible to measure. If you go down that track and place emphasis on subjective sound, then you are also left to subjective judgments from the so-called reviewers and from the reviewer industry .This is what turns HiFi into belief systems rather than technical systems.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Have they set up properly the room/speakers before the test so they can hear clearly the difference between the two amps?
Look at this picture, how "precise scientific" room acoustic.
View attachment 88667

Do audiophiles who claim to hear differences between amps do anything to "set the room" up so they can test properly? Do they make any efforts at all to eliminate variables that cause bias? No, they don't. They buy a new amp that they have read or seen reviews of. They connect it to their system, and they then hear all sorts of amazing things like more open highs and sweet transients and tonal richness that wasn't there with their crappy old amp (which when they originally brought it home 6 months ago provided all the same bennies they claim the hot new cookie is giving them now). Simply comparing several amps side by side and switching between them instantly is way more than what most of the golden ears ever do to test the veracity of their magical claims. All the systems in that comparison are sitting in the same space. "setting the room up" will have an equal effect on all the systems. Either way, the playing field is the same for all combatants...it's amusing how whenever one of these shoot-outs is performed and it showcases the silliness that is rampant in this hobby the golden ears all suddenly become concerned about the "scientific veracity" of the test situation.

 

[tomtoo]

If they know what amp they hear, its a compleatly useless hearing test. If i know the measurements, its very usefull. So its easy what i look for. Measurements!

If people are realy not know the influences of knowing something on your hearing they are just ignorant persons and i not see ignorant persons as a reliabel information source.

Edit says: changed stupid to ignorant. sry thx to @BDWoody