warm sonic signature

[blanc]

Hi,

what does a warm sonic signature mean technically? Does it mean more harmonics? Is it preferred for classical music?

 

[staticV3]

what does a warm sonic signature mean technically?

It usually means a downwards tiled frequency response (more bass than treble), or very high low order harmonic distortion.

Is it preferred for classical music?

On ASR, the general preference is towards neutral and transparent playback systems, so flat frequency response and low harmonic distortion. Regardless of the genre of music.

How the artists want their music to sound is already encoded into their masters. We don't want our playback systems to mess with that sound.

 

[DVDdoug]

It's not well defined and not "scientific". The audiophile community has a dictionary-full of words without clear meanings...

I try to avoid this kind of thing. Sometimes I'll say "dull" or "bright", but I try to remember to explain what I mean in terms of frequency response.

I sometimes means a mid-bass boost (which is how I used to use it) but yes, it can also mean "slight pleasing distortion". Or, it might just be the listener's imagination.

Is it preferred for classical music?

I think most people prefer clean, unaltered, sound. Especially classical music fans!



P.S.
I ignore reviews when they use that kind of terminology.... If they say the bass is weak, or there's a buzz in the background, or the left channel is louder than the right... Something meaningful,... That's useful information. Or if they say the sound is "perfect" with no defects and the device has no sound of it's own, that's good too!

 

[EDMoser]

Amir uses the term "warm" often when describing the sound signature of something, and I have no idea what he means by that either.

 

[ta240]

It means whatever the person writing it wants it to mean. Similar to sweet, detailed, airy or the dreaded 'tube like' sound.
We can all come up with what we define those as being but many people will be thinking of different things for them. It is all in the inflection as to if it is a good thing or a bad thing.

It largely depends on your memory of encountering what you perceived as that sound. If someone encountered a system they found pleasing and thought of it as warm, their idea of warm will be completely different from someone that listened to a system with the bass overpowering the mids and highs and thought of it as warm. Just as everyone that has heard one of the many, many poorly designed tube amps that thinks of that as tube sound isn't thinking the same thing as someone that listened to a well made one and only associates the extra harmonics as being 'tube sound'.

One person's 'tube like' is another's warm is another's muddled, is another's lacking detail, is another's full sounding, is another's airy, is another's rich, is another's realistic, is another's distorted.

 

[Waxx]

In general, people use the term "warm" to describe a sound where the lower midrange (250 to 800Hz) is a bit elevated and the upper treble (>10kHz) is reduced from flat with a slow slope, and/or with a certain level of low order harmonic distortion (2nd and 3th harmonic). But it's a subjective description, so not all mean exact the same.

 

[EERecordist]

Here is one description https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...descriptions-of-timbre-for-instruments.53298/

In pro audio, the words usually would be used to make an immediate adjustment to SW or HW settings, then the settings would be evaluated and further adjusted.

 

[Oldson]

am i right in thinking that a warm sounding amp sounds this way purely due to harmonic distortion, regardless of it being tube or solid state?

 

[DSJR]

Warm speakers can be an underdamped bass driver with an 'enthusiastic' port allowing overhang to the point of boom. Put in a lower to mid kHz dip in the response and tame the hf above this and voila!

 

[Basic Channel]

Outside the realm of heat, warm starts to lose concrete meaning. Like other vague words usually it’s just a disguise for good (or bad).

 

[Chrispy]

Outside the realm of heat, warm starts to lose concrete meaning. Like other vague words usually it’s just a disguise for good (or bad).

Nice summation.

 

[stubaggs]

Hi,

what does a warm sonic signature mean technically? Does it mean more harmonics? Is it preferred for classical music?

A subjective list of terms can be found over at Stereophile - Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary Glossary

 

[Tell]

Outside the realm of heat, warm starts to lose concrete meaning. Like other vague words usually it’s just a disguise for good (or bad).

Yeah it's a very strange term, because many seem to describe it as maybe some upper bass boost and maybe less upper treble, but to my ear that can't be described as warm in any way, instead I'd say it's muddy, dull and lifeless.

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

 

[Basic Channel]

Yeah it's a very strange term, because many seem to describe it as maybe some upper bass boost and maybe less upper treble, but to my ear that can't be described as warm in any way, instead I'd say it's muddy, dull and lifeless.

I can imagine it more for an electric guitar sound. Turning down the tone knob on a guitar sounds warmer to me. But I'd never describe a guitar sounding "too warm" as a negative like I would in reality for real heat. So it's really just vague language, I prefer the tone knob down.

I want everything except the music to be transparent so quite a lot of the terms make no sense to me in the sense of speakers or headphones.

 

[Chrispy]

A subjective list of terms can be found over at Stereophile - Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary Glossary

Seems many more interpretations out there unfortunately. Just too much variance to make it useful generally.

 

[MattHooper]

Hi,

what does a warm sonic signature mean technically? Does it mean more harmonics? Is it preferred for classical music?

The meaning of words is usually a function of context. The problem is that your question is vague in that regard. And unfortunately, some make the mistake of thinking that a vague question, leading to a variety of different answers, means "nobody really knows what it means, it's not a helpful term." Instead, it's just standard communication to use a word in..context.

So are we talking about whether a vocal recording sounds warm, or is lacking warmth? If it's lacking "warmth" that usually means it's sounding a bit thin, lacking the natural body we hear in people's voices, and possibly bright. A good mixer will know which EQ range to boost for more "warmth" in, say, Johnny Cash's voice.

Are we discussing whether a piano recording sounds "warm" or needs more warmth? Well that might take a boost around 75Hz - 200Hz.

Are we talking about "warmth" in terms of timbre and harmonics? We can say that the woody resonance of a cello sounds "warm" vs the striking of a tubular bell sounding more "cool/metallic." But we can even talk about "warmth" for metallic instruments - e.g. the tubular bells, or acoustic guitar strings. That can be an expression of harmonic richness - richer, ringing sound may sound more harmonically lush and "warmer" in that regard, vs say an overly damped metal string or bell.

Are we talking about the overall sonic signature of a sound system? Well, again, context. A more typical that would involve things like a general tilt towards the lower frequencies - i.e. a rolling off of the highs and rising towards the bass...or specific boosts in "warmth" region like the lower mids/upper bass too.

There's also, to my mind, another sense of "warmth" in the sound of a system, which is more like the timbral/harmonic quality of an instrument. Some systems just sound "warm" more in the way wood sounds "warm" vs metal, like they do wood sounds particularly convincingly, there's a sort of warm upper mid "glow" I associate with warmth too.

Here's more talk about "warmth" from sound on sound:

The Secrets Of Warmth & Air

You don't need a wand to conjure up sonic magic, just a few well-chosen recording tools.

www.soundonsound.com

Now, the person who looks at all the above and throws up their hands saying "aagh, there's just too many meanings of 'warm,' so that makes it useless" has, for some strange reason, simply forgotten how communication works. You learn what something means by the context in which it is being used, and the good communicator is aware the audience knows the particular context, or if not gives the context.

 

[MattHooper]

Outside the realm of heat, warm starts to lose concrete meaning. Like other vague words usually it’s just a disguise for good (or bad).

The term "warm" never has "concrete meaning" if by that you mean objective precision. Look up the definition in any dictionary you want, and you won't find a specific, objective "temperature" for "warm."

Does that mean it's uselessly vague? Then why do we ever use it, and how can it have definitions in dictionaries?

1.
of or at a fairly or comfortably high temperature.
"a warm September evening"

And of course is used in different context:

Warm: having, showing, or expressive of enthusiasm, affection, or kindness.
"they exchanged warm, friendly smiles"

Let's not throw out poor babies with the bathwater. You want to know what someone means by the term? Look for the context. If they haven't provided proper context, they aren't communicating well. But someone doing a poor job using a language tool no more indites the tool than does someone using a measurement tool poorly.

 

[Anton D]

I secretly think of even order harmonic distortion as part of ‘warmth.’

I admit it’s my own idiosyncrasy!

 

[Basic Channel]

The term "warm" never has "concrete meaning" if by that you mean objective precision. Look up the definition in any dictionary you want, and you won't find a specific, objective "temperature" for "warm."

Does that mean it's uselessly vague? Then why do we ever use it, and how can it have definitions in dictionaries?

1.
of or at a fairly or comfortably high temperature.
"a warm September evening"

And of course is used in different context:

Warm: having, showing, or expressive of enthusiasm, affection, or kindness.
"they exchanged warm, friendly smiles"

Let's not throw out poor babies with the bathwater. You want to know what someone means by the term? Look for the context. If they haven't provided proper context, they aren't communicating well. But someone doing a poor job using a language tool no more indites the tool than does someone using a measurement tool poorly.

We'll it is more meaningful when describing heat. Loses meaning rather than loses concrete meaning if you prefer. I am not arguing against such use of language, I was just pointing out the obvious. We often replace good and bad with other words that technically mean something else - fantastic, tremendous, horrific, nang, etc. I suppose otherwise we'd sound like children describing everything as good or bad.

When someone describes Lionel Messi as "a joke" which meant the opposite 20 years ago, it's still more clear in meaning than when someone describes a sound as warm. Like you mentioned in your other long post in the other thread, it kinda depends for me what sound is being described as warm.

Generally speaking, old jazz is warmer and less punchy than minimal techno. I presume others know what I mean by that, I at least know what I mean by that. But if I say which of my 3 headphones/IEM is most warm or punchy sounding, I am not really even sure myself what I mean by that.