Vinyl will always sound *different* than digital, right?

[FrankW]

But it wasn't an extension at all

It was, since I wrote it, its intent, whether you're an audiophile scryer or not.

So was the Edison reference when we were discussing LP. You could try making sense, you know.

I was discussing vinyl. LP is a length/size. Vinyl is the medium. Since Edison, where many are still stuck, to this day.

As for my preference, I'm stuck with two channel. If somebody nice was to buy us a larger place to live, where I could fit in both a proper surround system

Not sure what a "proper" one is, but a MCH system requires no more room than a 2ch one, since the front 2chs are exactly the same. Understand centers can be problematic, surrounds not so much. Small, tucked away, even wireless is fine there, even if less than perfection.

I wonder what you think of mono?

Not from that era, don't care to know in 2023

 

[MattHooper]

What exactly is the point of denigrating someone else's avocation choices?

It's rather clear that some people simply get pleasure out of doing so, as his every post attests.

 

[FrankW]

Put on some nice, richer sounding Jah'Mila vinyl from digital masters and you'll be ok Matt.

 

[MattHooper]

Perhaps, refresh your memory:
hear·say noun
information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate.
LAW the report of another person's words by a witness

I was supporting my point that some artists value vinyl for many of the same reasons consumer vinyl enthusiasts value it, and hence their positive comments about vinyl are not *only* driven *just* because they may get more money from a vinyl sale.

As this was doubted, I provided articles quoting artists supporting my point.

But, in an effort to dismiss this, you keep using the term 'hearsay.'

What, precisely, is your point with this dismissing the relevance of those quotes to my argument as "hearsay"?

Do you mean that what artists quoted on a subject in an article can not be admitted as evidence for their view on a subject?

Try explaining:

1. What you demand as suitable "verification" of their views on vinyl? Do you need to talk to them directly? Put a private eye on their tail? Put family members on the stand? What, exactly, would move this from inadmissible to admissible evidence?

2. What good reasons have you to doubt that the artists feel the way about vinyl that those quotes express?

Matt, we get it. You like Edison era sound tech vinyl from digital masters. Some hipster "artists" like Jah'Mila and other low fi music types have said so along with admitting LP are what $ell to said hipsters and their Crossleys. I fully understand why you will evade at all costs answering why they don't release their digital media as "richer" vinyl rips...of digital masters. Glad you've found these crutches to support your preference if it helps.

I answered. You ignore it, as you have done with virtually all my points.

I understand Gish. Exhibit A for a failed avalanche attempt Gish Nice try.

Yeah, that's what I said: You can keep throwing out the term: what you manifestly can not do is justify your use of the term. It's more about insults, than trying to understand someone's view.

And I understand why you need "support" for your Edison era 2ch sound preferences in 2023. It's ok, this type Fi isn't for 19th century stereophile low-fi, my-fi types. Never was or will be. It's ok, preferences vary.

Yes, your posts indicate you are not here for honest conversation on this subject, but rather to get squirts of dopamine from endless snide jibes and derision. Though it can occasionally be interesting to see how far someone will take their act.

 

[FrankW]

I provided articles quoting artists supporting my point.
But, in an effort to dismiss this, you keep using the term 'hearsay.'

That's exactly what that is.
Btw, rather than selective quotes, I linked the entire article you parsed from, which included, surprise, surprise, they sell more, make more off Vinyl aka LPs. In vogue with hipsters these days.

What you demand as suitable "verification" of their views on vinyl?

Them, right hand raised, swearing on a stack of LPs. Under oath.

What good reasons have you to doubt that the artists feel the way about vinyl that those quotes express?

The oldest reason in the world. $$$$$$$$$
It's ok Matt, they told you exactly what you wanted to hear (confirmation), so now you have that "support" for your choices/preference 2ch/mono bass needle dragging. In 2023. All good.
Hey, Btw, have you ever asked these artists why they don't release their digital as richer vinyl rips?

 

[sejarzo]

What happens when you try to pay for an LP with a paper check, you know, because you like the nostalgia of putting your real signature in ink on paper, then getting it back in the mail in a month or so?



Seriously, if an artist thinks vinyl conveys the "performance" better (without regard to what cartridge and setup the user employs) why don't they just issue CDs that are mastered the way the artist thinks it should sound? Seems no-brainer to me.

 

[MattHooper]

That's exactly what that is.
Btw, rather than selective quotes, I linked the entire article you parsed from, which included, surprise, surprise, they sell more, make more off Vinyl aka LPs. In vogue with hipsters these days.

"You" linked? LOL.

I linked to the articles I quoted from. So that anyone could see the context. And I included a quote about how they sold more vinyl than CDs.
So there is no "surprise surprise," that fact has been acknowledged from the outset. My point is that it isn't the ONLY reason the artists speak highly of, or release on vinyl. You continually evade my point (because it's clear you aren't here for real discussion).

Them, right hand raised, swearing on a stack of LPs. Under oath.

It was abvious you wouldn't be able to answer those questions.

The oldest reason in the world. $$$$$$$$$
It's ok Matt, they told you exactly what you wanted to hear (confirmation), so now you have that "support" for your choices/preference 2ch/mono bass needle dragging. In 2023. All good.
Hey, Btw, have you ever asked these artists why they don't release their digital as richer vinyl rips?

Yeah. Snack time for trolling is over.

 

[FrankW]

"You" linked? LOL.
I linked to the articles I quoted from. So that anyone could see the context. And I included a quote about how they sold more vinyl than CDs.
So there is no "surprise surprise," that fact has been acknowledged from the outset.

Ok, sorry I missed original link. Glad it confirmed the $$ aspect.

My point is that it isn't the ONLY reason the artists speak highly of, or release on vinyl. You continually evade my point (because it's clear you aren't here for real discussion).

Your speculation of the 5 or so artists interviewed for a vinyl article. What did you expect them to say, vinyl sucks? Are you familiar with statistical sample size?

It was abvious you wouldn't be able to answer those questions.

Abviously. Seriously, you're talking about me evading questions? Why don't they release their digital using "richer"/"analog" vinyl rips of the digital masters?

Yeah. Snack time for trolling is over.

Matt, we understand why the testimonials of 5 obscure artists who make money off vinyl, for a vinyl fad resurgence article is helpful for propping up your subjective preference. It's ok man.

 

[MattHooper]

Seriously, if an artist thinks vinyl conveys the "performance" better (without regard to what cartridge and setup the user employs) why don't they just issue CDs that are mastered the way the artist thinks it should sound? Seems no-brainer to me.

Keep in mind my original post was tongue-in-cheek (hence the smiley), which had to do with those adamant about reproducing The Artist's Intent. So it was only in that context: that IF someone were so adamant about that goal, then in some cases, where an artist expressed preference for vinyl, or saw the vinyl version as comprising their ultimate expression of their product, then it could be consistent to choose the vinyl copy. I don't really think anyone dedicated to digital playback is going to do that of course. It's more a way of prodding around the whole 'artists intent' thing, in a fun way.

So in that context, to answer your question:

It's not just about sound. The artists who like vinyl often speak of the specific physical/aesthetic/experiential/historical aspects of vinyl, that they find add value to owning and playing music. Some artists also like CDs, but we are referencing the artists who prefer vinyl records. Therefore attempting to produce a CD that sounded like the vinyl or whatever, would not replace all the reasons some will prefer a vinyl record.

 

[sejarzo]

It's not just about sound. The artists who like vinyl often speak of the specific physical/aesthetic/experiential/historical aspects of vinyl, that they find add value to owning and playing music. Some artists also like CDs, but we are referencing the artists who prefer vinyl records. Therefore attempting to produce a CD that sounded like the vinyl or whatever, would not replace all the reasons some will prefer a vinyl record.

In my admittedly small sample size of interviews with artists who were asked the question, they all said they preferred the "warmer" or "richer" sound of vinyl and failed to note any of the "touchy feely" stuff. <this forum needs the shrug emoji>

 

[MattHooper]

In my admittedly small sample size of interviews with artists who were asked the question, they all said they preferred the "warmer" or "richer" sound of vinyl and failed to note any of the "touchy feely" stuff. <this forum needs the shrug emoji>

There are almost countless articles on the vinyl revival over the years -"why is vinyl back?" - still turning up almost every day. The "touchy feely" aspects as you call them are mentioned in almost every article, in interview after interview of vinyl consumers. Artists consume music too, and so it's expected that, just as a niche portion of consumers find value in vinyl, you'll also find a niche portion of artists who play vinyl for the same reasons as vinyl consumers. It's usually either an appeal to the "sound" or the "touchy feely" stuff, or both, but the physical aspects I mentioned are the most common through-line connecting most vinyl enthusiasts (so those who like the sound will also tend to laud the physical/aesthetic etc aspects as well).

I provided some examples of some artists speaking these ways about vinyl.

Cheers.

 

[sejarzo]

There are almost countless articles on the vinyl revival over the years -"why is vinyl back?" - still turning up almost every day. ...

My original comment wasn't really directed at you or trying to refute your comments--it was a more general comment about the sound side of the issue, based on the comments I had heard. I'm never going to get back into it after years of spending way too much money on different tonearms, cartridges, MC pre-preamps, phono preamps, and plain old preamps, only to endure unacceptable surface noise and distortion compared to digital media.

My comment about paper checks was just an attempt at snarky humor, in that the few younger folks I know who are into vinyl don't ever handle a transaction on paper unless there's absolutely no alternative.

 

[Galliardist]

It was, since I wrote it, its intent, whether you're an audiophile scryer or not.

I was discussing vinyl. LP is a length/size. Vinyl is the medium. Since Edison, where many are still stuck, to this day.

The first vinyl record dates from 1930. The early discs were used only for radio. It crosses with Edison's life by eight months and he was no longer working. Edison's cylinders were made out of other materials. Edison produced cylinders of wax and other materials (eventually something like Bakelite).

Edison did not invent the flat record, he did not invent stereo, he certainly didn't invent the LP record we still have today.

You may just as well accuse me of being a tube lover for writing this at a computer, and well, early computers used vacuum tubes, so that's proof.

Not sure what a "proper" one is, but a MCH system requires no more room than a 2ch one, since the front 2chs are exactly the same. Understand centers can be problematic, surrounds not so much. Small, tucked away, even wireless is fine there, even if less than perfection.

You don't know my situation, there's no need to evangelise to me or anything like that.

Not from that era, don't care to know in 2023

Your loss, but I'll take my own advice and leave it at that.

 

[MattHooper]

Excellent new deep dive explanation of how vinyl produces stereo tracks, from the excellent Technology Connections:

 

[Newman]

Wow, two whole channels from just one stylus. Vinyl technology is so advanced, let's all worship it.

 

[coonmanx]

Wow, two whole channels from just one stylus. Vinyl technology is so advanced, let's all worship it.

I have to agree. The best thing that I ever did was ditching vinyl. With zero regrets at all.

A friend of mine a couple of years back went out and bought a turntable because he had some albums laying around. He cleaned them up and played them one by one. And then he went right back to playing CDs. It was fun while it lasted.

I am not into streaming, besides late night listening to internet radio, which is a type of streaming. I do still buy CDs because they are dirt cheap and if I get bored with any of them there is a music shop in town where I can trade them in for different CDs. For me, CDs are a good media. And I didn't even really get into them until about 1995.

 

[MattHooper]

Wow, two whole channels from just one stylus. Vinyl technology is so advanced, let's all worship it.

 

[coonmanx]

Honestly, if someone wants to listen to vinyl... It's a free country. And as much as I enjoyed it in the past I simply will not be going back to it. I got tired of cleaning records. I got tired of flipping records over and doing it all over again. But if people enjoy it then good for them. I just realized that it is no longer for me.

YMMV...

 

[Galliardist]

Wow, two whole channels from just one stylus. Vinyl technology is so advanced, let's all worship it.

Well, I laughed - and now I feel a bit guilty.

 

[FrankW]

Wow, two whole channels from just one stylus. Vinyl technology is so advanced, let's all worship it.

It's also endorsed by 6 obscure artists being interviewed for a vinyl article. So there's that too.