Vacuum Record Cleaners

[Angsty]

I got a rude awakening when my new Shibata stylus cartridge started digging gunk out of my grooves that my old elliptical seemed to not disturb. I’ve been using a Record Doctor vacuum cleaner since last Christmas, with the OEM cleaning fluid.

Do other vacuum cleaner brands perform the job better?

I’m not interested in ultrasonic cleaners at this time; too much investment. I’d consider an upgrade to an Okki Nokki or similar if the performance was marketedly better. I’ve found that the Record Doctor has not doing a great job of drying records, which leads me to think that it’s leaving dirt behind that it shouldn’t.

Record cleaning fluids are another rabbit hole that I’d like to steer clear of here; just looking at vacuum drying/cleaning performance.

 

[Daverz]

VPI machines suck really hard and dry very efficiently. But they are noisy as hell. I bought ear protection for using mine.

I haven't tried this, but there's a cheaper way to go ultrasonic than buying a complete ultrasonic record cleaner. You can buy a rack with a motor that spins the record slowly and works with a standard ultrasonic bath type cleaner. This can all be found on ebay. You would still need to scrub very dirty records and dry them on your vacuum RCM. That said, and in my limited experience, what an ultrasonic cleaner does well is remove very fine dirt, making for smoother playback, but does not do any better job at removing major ticks and pops than a vacuum machine.

 

[Tom C]

I’ve never owned a vacuum machine. But I have done a DIY ultrasound, and am very pleased with the results. I put tergitol in distilled water, and use a $150 ultrasound cleaner I got off Amazon that was originally designed for household use (cleaning jewelry, etc). I found a motorized spinner on eBay, forget how much that was, maybe another $100. So, for less than $500, I was able to put together a system that produces excellent results.
I think a vacuum would help for those really filthy disks from back in the day that have who knows what spilled on them so long ago that the cigarette tar has permanently bonded to the surface. But apart from the hardest cases, for me it’s all I need.

 

[Phorize]

I have a moth RCM that I’m about to use for the first time. Until now I have been using a disco anti stat. It’s just an acetone bath with a brush, but at £50 gets very good results and therefore massive bang for buck. I don’t have a microscope to verify the differences though, I guess I could run a proper test and record the difference and analyse the results. The anti stat seems to render minging old 33s crackle free and shiny so the extra £550 I spent on the moth may well turn out to give diminishing performance returns. Mind you, the motor runs at over 70 db so at least I have the joy of sitting at my dining room table with ear defenders on shaking the house whilst the rest of the house hold hide under their beds thinking the apocalypse has arrived.

 

[Wombat]

This gadget is interesting:

https://www.amazon.com/WEWU-Bracket...ntistat+record+cleaner&qid=1602830863&sr=8-16

 

[sergeauckland]

I've had a Moth Vacuum RCM for many years, and found it does a really good job, albeit very noisy. I've measured around 100dBSPL standing at the machine, so wear ear defenders when using it.
I make my own cleaning fluid with 4 parts demineralised (distilled) water, 1 part Isopropyl alcohol and a ml or so of Ilfotol wetting agent in 500ml of fluid.

Built mine from a kit, that saved a £100 or more over a factory built unit. It's been totally reliable for around the 10 years I've had it.

S

 

[Tom C]

I went with this:

https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/

I used a small amount of alcohol in my cleaning solution for a time, but when my 1950’s 78 shellac copy of Spike Jones’ “All I Want for Christmas is My Two Front Teeth” crumbled to dust as I removed it from the cleaner, I decided to delete the alcohol. Tergitol is used by the US Library of Congress to clean disks being prepared for digital archiving, and the results have been quite good.
The addition of an enzyme (some use pancrease) is something I’ve yet to try, but should be useful in difficult cases.
Sorry to be talking cleaning solutions and ultrasound when you said specifically you aren’t interested. I’ll stop now.

 

[sergeauckland]

I went with this:

https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/

I used a small amount of alcohol in my cleaning solution for a time, but when my 1950’s 78 shellac copy of Spike Jones’ “All I Want for Christmas is My Two Front Teeth” crumbled to dust as I removed it from the cleaner, I decided to delete the alcohol. Tergitol is used by the US Library of Congress to clean disks being prepared for digital archiving, and the results have been quite good.
The addition of an enzyme (some use pancrease) is something I’ve yet to try, but should be useful in difficult cases.
Sorry to be talking cleaning solutions and ultrasound when you said specifically you aren’t interested. I’ll stop now.

Shellac discs (whether real shellac or something similar) should never have any alcohol near them, as it dissolves the disc. Consequently, 78s should be washed with water only. I'm also very nervous about cleaning 78s using a vacuum RCM, as the suction tends to bend an LP slightly, of no consequence for a vinyl record, but could snap a rigid 78.

As to Tergitol, I can't see it doing LPs any harm. (Clearly, as otherwise the LoC wouldn't use it!
But, it is a secondary ethoxylated alcohol and I don't know enough chemistry to know whether it would harm 78s.
I clean my 78s with a mild washing-up liquid solution and luke-warm water, then finish off with clean filtered water, then a final rinse in softened water. I then dry them on soft towels and leave them out to dry fully.

By the way, not that I buy many new LPs, but I always clean even those before playing as there are various things like mould release agents that can leach out of the vinyl and I'd rather not have those on my stylus.

I was sceptical about what actually goes into the vinyl that makes up an LP. My understanding at the time was that each record pressing plant had their own formulations, using all sorts of stuff. Here's a link to an RCA patent for one such formulation.

https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/87/870415.html

S.

 

[Angsty]

I’ve never owned a vacuum machine. But I have done a DIY ultrasound, and am very pleased with the results. I put tergitol in distilled water, and use a $150 ultrasound cleaner I got off Amazon that was originally designed for household use (cleaning jewelry, etc). I found a motorized spinner on eBay, forget how much that was, maybe another $100. So, for less than $500, I was able to put together a system that produces excellent results.
I think a vacuum would help for those really filthy disks from back in the day that have who knows what spilled on them so long ago that the cigarette tar has permanently bonded to the surface. But apart from the hardest cases, for me it’s all I need.

Thanks for observing that I am looking for a vacuum cleaning system versus an ultrasonic. I do appreciate that you shared that an ultrasonic system can be assembled for not much money (maybe less than a used Okki Nokki) and can produce great results.

A good, pre-owned VPI may be the way for me to go, as I do sometimes have filthy thrift store finds, but they might never make it to the new Shibata cartridge. The VPI is a known workhorse of a cleaner, it's just a bit bigger than the Record Doctor which tucks away nicely on a shelf. I'd have to find a place to house a VPI.

FWIW, my Record Doctor clocks in at about 90dB, so I'm not sure if any out there are more noisy than that.

 

[Angsty]

I’ve found that the Record Doctor has not doing a great job of drying records, which leads me to think that it’s leaving dirt behind that it shouldn’t.

As with many things, I found the problem to be with the operator rather than with the equipment. After a bit more research on other users’ reviews, I found that I had been too impatient in my use. When I slowed my manual rotational speed to half my past practice, I got much better results. Rotating quickly for twice as many rotations did not produce as good as results as simply going half-speed. Additionally, I found that if I let the record surface soak with cleaning fluid for 2-3 minutes before vacuuming, the results were better yet.

Haste was the issue, not a defective product. Nonetheless, a motorized cleaner might produce faster, more consistent results. But, I’m no longer in a hurry to throw money at the problem when less hurry is the answer at hand.

 

[Tom C]

Can anyone compare the VPI cleaner to Pro-Ject?
The Pro-Ject is cheaper and has metal rather than plastic for the vacuum wand, but does it do as good a job?

 

[MusicNBeer]

Record Doctor V is perfectly fine. The problem is the fluid you're using. I gave up on that RD fluid, and all fancy record cleaning solutions, and now simply use distilled water and 30% ISO alcohol, with Jet Dry surfactant. Works vastly better and actually coats the whole surface. I also use Mofi brush to deep clean all used records I buy. I'm frequently shocked how much reduction in surface noise I get.

 

[Robin L]

A Fresno California record shop offered an ultrasonic record cleaning service. If anyone in your area has that service, that's what I'd go for. The best vacuum cleaner is the Keith Monks, others tend to have suction devices that transfer crap from one LP to another.

 

[Tom C]

I’d be worried alcohol in the cleaning solution would leach the plasticizer from the vinyl, making it brittle and making it crack. The chemists say this is a possible risk.

 

[Angsty]

The best vacuum cleaner is the Keith Monks, others tend to have suction devices that transfer crap from one LP to another.

I've read a bit about the Keith Monks and its highly variable build quality. The Loricraft units use the same principle and seem to have higher build quality. But, if I were interested in investing that kind of cash, I'd go with an ultrasonic unit. @Robin L had a great suggestion, but I have not found a place in my area yet with that service; there are some available online with a shipping cost.

 

[Robin L]

I've read a bit about the Keith Monks and its highly variable build quality. The Loricraft units use the same principle and seem to have higher build quality. But, if I were interested in investing that kind of cash, I'd go with an ultrasonic unit. @Robin L had a great suggestion, but I have not found a place in my area yet with that service; there are some available online with a shipping cost.

db audio in Berkeley had a Keith Monks machine, I used it for years until the store closed. Ultrasonic cleaners do a better job. Sorry there's no local service for LP cleaning.

 

[Angsty]

Shifting focus to ultrasonic systems as I've seen the Kirmuss unit selling for less than US$1000 now; that puts it in the vacuum pricing ballpark.

Anyone have experience with the Kirmuss? I've seen mixed commentary elsewhere.

 

[gene_stl]

I find Kirmuss' personality so unbelievably pompous that he has zero credibility with me. He makes certain statements that also don't make sense, for example that ONLY HIS ultrasonic cleaner has the right frequency to clean records. ONLY HIS brush gets down into the grooves far enough and ONLY HIS cleaning solution doesn't do permanent harm to your valuable recordings.

This really sounds like audiophile bullshit to me. I would never ever spend a penny with him nor his company.

Everybody has to use Tergitol. Since you are only putting in a little bit,Dawn detergent is likely just fine and is the favorite of all manner of technicians and mechanics for cleaning dirty stuff. It rinses off fine. And you really don't even need to use detergent since alcohol in small percentage breaks the surface tension of water better than most detergents.

A good friend of mine who is nuts about vinyl and has multiple cleaning maschines likes his new Loricraft the best. Back in the day I met Keith Monks. His record cleaning machine was one of the very first and probably the best back in its time. He also built a unipivot arm that was terrible because it had four mercury pools for contacts. Not only did it exhale mercury vapor into your listening room but "mercury wetted contacts" widely used in electrical power gear, have the mercury and contacts protected from atmospheric oxygen. Not so his arm. It was a nice try.

 

[Ramon Cota]

Ramon uses running tap water , dish washing fluid and his delicate and soft fingers to clean his records. Then he wipes them with with soft disposable tissues in circular motion. 0 cost 100 % satisfaction.

 

[gene_stl]

Gene likes to rinse with deionized water and wipe with a clean microfiber cloth , not necessarily in that order.