Upgrade from HifiMan Sundara + Qudelix 5K

[Ole_S]

Hifiman HE-1000 Stealth (v3). Your Q5K should be more than enough to drive them.I

Hifiman HE-1000 Stealth (v3). Your Q5K should be more than enough to drive them.

I have just plugged in the Arya Stealth to my Qudelix K5.
Plenty of volumen

 

[Ole_S]

Maybe I am not audiophile, men I cannot hear big difference from Arya Stealth to Sundara.
Is that normal? ¨

Arya Stealth sounds great, 100%. But I cannot hear big difference, sound wise.

 

[Jimbob54]

Maybe I am not audiophile, men I cannot hear big difference from Arya Stealth to Sundara.
Is that normal? ¨

Arya Stealth sounds great, 100%. But I cannot hear big difference, sound wise.

Once you have got the bass on both as you like it, I would have thought the Arya Stealth should sound a bit brighter (possibly making it sound more detailed) than the Sundara.

If you have EQd both using the same EQ target / measurer settings (eg Oratory) I doubt there would be a big difference at all.

Turn EQ off both and tell us what if anything stands out as different

 

[Robbo99999]

Maybe I am not audiophile, men I cannot hear big difference from Arya Stealth to Sundara.
Is that normal? ¨

Arya Stealth sounds great, 100%. But I cannot hear big difference, sound wise.

Are you EQ'ing both of those headphones to the Harman Curve using Oratory EQ's? Or are you instead comparing them both to each other at stock without EQ. Obviously with EQ to the same target then they should sound less different. Depending on what the measured stock frequency response differences are between Arya & Sundara, then it could be hard or easy to tell the two headphones apart when listening to them. I've generally found headphones to sound still quite different even after EQ'ing them all to Harman Target using Oratory presets for instance, so I suppose I say I'm surprised you're not noticing any differences even if you're EQ'ing them both to the same target.

 

[Ole_S]

Are you EQ'ing both of those headphones to the Harman Curve using Oratory EQ's? Or are you instead comparing them both to each other at stock without EQ. Obviously with EQ to the same target then they should sound less different. Depending on what the measured stock frequency response differences are between Arya & Sundara, then it could be hard or easy to tell the two headphones apart when listening to them. I've generally found headphones to sound still quite different even after EQ'ing them all to Harman Target using Oratory presets for instance, so I suppose I say I'm surprised you're not noticing any differences even if you're EQ'ing them both to the same target.

Mayby my ears are just not "trained" enough, sound wise, to hear the differences?
Both Sundura and Arya Stealth are playing at the same EQ settings. That is not correct, I guess.

Arya Stealth might sound a little brighter and have a little more soundstage to my ears.

 

[Ole_S]

To be honest with you, I hoped for a bigger soundstage. It is better than Sundara, yes.
But still.

 

[Robbo99999]

Mayby my ears are just not "trained" enough, sound wise, to hear the differences?
Both Sundura and Arya Stealth are playing at the same EQ settings. That is not correct, I guess.

Arya Stealth might sound a little brighter and have a little more soundstage to my ears.

Your second sentence there, are you saying you're applying the same EQ to both headphones? Each model of headphone should have it's own EQ to Harman Target, you can't really use the same EQ that's say been created for Sundara & then use the same exact EQ on the Arya - I mean that's just a silly thing to do because the stock frequency responses are different & therefore each model of headphone needs it's own EQ to Harman Target.

If I'm comparing headphones then I listen to the same section/sections of various reference tracks of some of my favourite music that I think helps showcase all parts of the music spectrum - I mean if there's not much bass happening in the music then there's no point using those tracks to dial in the correct amount of bass for the EQ for example. You generally want to be using busy/dense tracks that contain frequency content from all parts of the spectrum playing at the same time which enables you to check the overall tonal balance of the EQ is fine as well as checking that the bass level is where it should be and maybe some other areas of the frequency response, bass is the easiest part of the frequency response to tune, everything else is harder. Most people would probably be fine by either using an Oratory EQ as is without changing it or perhaps just changing the bass level. Anyway, this is not directly what you asked, but it's related. I think you should choose the correct tracks & listen to snippets/sections on one headphone & then quickly change to the other headphone to listen to that small section of the track again - it helps if you know the track very well too.

 

[zonk]

Here the measurements of Oratory
Sundara measurement
Arya Stealth measurement

for me the only headphone that makes are real difference in soundstage is the Sennheiser HD800S. And it strongly depends on the material of music.

 

[Ole_S]

Maybe the soundstage "grows" when I have played + 100 hours?

 

[staticV3]

Maybe the soundstage "grows" when I have played + 100 hours?

no.

 

[Ole_S]

no.

 

[Ole_S]

I don't know what I expected.
I was probably hoping for the sound of a large "concert hall sound". And unfortunately I don't feel that here.

 

[Robbo99999]

Maybe the soundstage "grows" when I have played + 100 hours?

Your brain might get used to the sound & might start creating a bit more of a soundstage for you, but beyond that no. I think my best soundstage headphone is the K702, I've found it better than HD800 in that respect, of course with both EQ'd to Harman. K702 is quite a cheap to buy headphone if you live in the UK, and maybe some other countries (it's quite expensive in the USA for instance), but it's a headphone you have to use EQ with in my experience, and the unit to unit variation is quite high, mainly because of differences in the pads I've found after measuring 4 different units of K702. It's not really a headphone I'd recommend because of that, in fact I'd only recommend it with a specific aftermarket pad that I use and based on an EQ I've developed after measuring 4 units of these K702. The other problem with K702 is that the wires will eventually become detached in the ear cups and you have to solder them back on, at which point if you do a good job the wires will stay soldered "permanently". Lol, also the elastic in the headband of the K702 slackens after a number of years which means that needs replacing eventually. I think they're a really good headphone after you've jumped through those many hoops, but it's too much too ask of most people. But yeah, K702 is my best soundstage headphone, HD800 is not far behind, but I get less forward placement (less in front of me) with HD800, it's more middle & back of head, but it does have wide extension out the sides of your head, but then again K702 can do that too for me. It's a bit tricky talking about soundstage because it varies a bit depending on your EQ, and also what tracks you're playing too (a lot to do with the music you play), and different people perceive soundstage of certain headphones differently - it's all a bit shaky but for me I notice a difference between my headphones, it's just highly personal and not a guarantee that if you get the same headphones that people mention, you can't guarantee you'd get the same soundstage experience.

 

[Ole_S]

Please excuse me if I am wrong.
But please look at Oratory1900 related to Arya Stealh.

Should not the filter of the low lowest Hz (73) be increased instead of gain -1.4?

Please bare in mind that I am a newbie to this world

 

[Ole_S]

Your brain might get used to the sound & might start creating a bit more of a soundstage for you, but beyond that no. I think my best soundstage headphone is the K702, I've found it better than HD800 in that respect, of course with both EQ'd to Harman. K702 is quite a cheap to buy headphone if you live in the UK, and maybe some other countries (it's quite expensive in the USA for instance), but it's a headphone you have to use EQ with in my experience, and the unit to unit variation is quite high, mainly because of differences in the pads I've found after measuring 4 different units of K702. It's not really a headphone I'd recommend because of that, in fact I'd only recommend it with a specific aftermarket pad that I use and based on an EQ I've developed after measuring 4 units of these K702. The other problem with K702 is that the wires will eventually become detached in the ear cups and you have to solder them back on, at which point if you do a good job the wires will stay soldered "permanently". Lol, also the elastic in the headband of the K702 slackens after a number of years which means that needs replacing eventually. I think they're a really good headphone after you've jumped through those many hoops, but it's too much too ask of most people. But yeah, K702 is my best soundstage headphone, HD800 is not far behind, but I get less forward placement (less in front of me) with HD800, it's more middle & back of head, but it does have wide extension out the sides of your head, but then again K702 can do that too for me. It's a bit tricky talking about soundstage because it varies a bit depending on your EQ, and also what tracks you're playing too (a lot to do with the music you play), and different people perceive soundstage of certain headphones differently - it's all a bit shaky but for me I notice a difference between my headphones, it's just highly personal and not a guarantee that if you get the same headphones that people mention, you can't guarantee you'd get the same soundstage experience.

You're very helpful.
Thanks a lot.

 

[Jimbob54]

Please excuse me if I am wrong.
But please look at Oratory1900 related to Arya Stealh.

Should not the filter of the low lowest Hz (73) be increased instead of gain -1.4?

Please bare in mind that I am a newbie to this world

No. Look at the filter impact diagram (second down on left) the and you will see why.

 

[Ole_S]

Orange line = curve without EQ
Green line = what we are aiming to hit
Right?

It seems to me that the green curve is above the orange curve.
That is why I thought the low Hz should be gained +

I might have totally misunderstood it.

 

[Jimbob54]

Orange line = curve without EQ
Green line = what we are aiming to hit
Right?

It seems to me that the green curve is above the orange curve.
That is why I thought the low Hz should be gained +

I might have totally misunderstood it.
View attachment 382830

. Did you look at the diagram I suggested you review?

 

[Ole_S]

. Did you look at the diagram I suggested you review?

Yes, but the EQ does not mit sense to me, if we are aiming for the green curve :-S
I have looked at the second diagram, but it does not make any sense to me.

I am just curious and would like to know the curves and measurements works.

 

[Ole_S]

Why low gain the lowest Hz, if the lower bass needs extra gain? :-S