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Looking for closed back headphones (EU)

RHO

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I'm looking for a new set of closed back headphones. I can use EQ and I most probably will EQ, but I need them to sound very good even without EQ. I'ld like to keep the EQ for the last fine-tuning. Not for fixing a broken frequency response.
What I currently own and what I think about them:
- DCA Aeon RT closed : Very comfortable. Very nice build quality. Sound without EQ is absolutely not to my taste. They sound sharp. Lower mids are missing and the higher mids are so overwhelming even the bass sounds thin (while it is there). With EQ these are great. Very power hungry.
- Beyerdynamic DT770 pro 250Ohm with Dekoni (elite velours?) pads: Very good comfort. Clumsy cable. Very good build quality. Good amount of bass, reasonably good mids, very sharp treble peak that can annoy me (but does depend on the music) Sound warmer then K371. I like the DT770 more.
- AKG K371 with Brainwavz earpads: Reasonably comfortable to wear. Reasonable build quality (I have not had any issues with them). Horrible cables. Good amount of bass, a bit too much eargain(?)/shouty upper mids, too much treble. Where there's a narrow peak in the DT770's, here it sounds like the whole treble is lifted. For listening at lower levels these are still fine.
- Sennheiser HD6XX: Comfortable but maybe just that little bit too much clamping force. Good build quality. Lacking lower octave. Very nice mids. Good treble. Love 'm but really missing those bass notes. Sometimes they seem to lack a little openess ... if that even means anything...
- Hifiman Sundara: Reasonably comfortable. Not too heavy but maybe lacking a little in clamping force. They feel like they rest on my head with the headband. Mediocre build quality, although they are still working fine and in 1 piece. Horrible cable. Maybe controversial, but I think these sound even a little better than the HD6XX, but have the same issue in the bass region. No sub-bass at all. They sound a little more forward but then again they don't. I can't exactly pinpoint what it is.

So I think I like the harmann OE curve with just a little less eargain.

I'm planning on selling the DCA's. I like them least (without EQ!) of all the ones I have. The K371's are in use by my partner. She likes them a lot. The DT770's assigned to the TV set (for when one of us stays up late and wants to whatch a movie). So I want some closed backs for the home office/listening room.

Headphone amp is the SMSL RAW-MDA 1. So I think I have enough power for most headphones on the market. The device will not be the issue if I don't like what I'm hearing.

Budget: I would like to keep it below €300.
Short list:
- FiiO FT1
- Sennheiser HD620S
- Beyerdynamic DT700 pro X

Your thoughts?
Which one would you choose from the shortlist?
Other options then the ones from my shortlist? (got measurements?)
 
Great. I'll look into those. Is that from the company that was started by former AKG employees? (or am I remembering this wrong?)

Maybe useful: I do own some Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk IEMs. Those have the "perfect" tuning for me. But I can't keep IEMs in for long enough to really enjoy a long listening session.
 
Looking at Amirs review I don't think this will be the one for me. Too many issues without EQ:
- That 100Hz bump
- the eargain
- channel matching (fit-issues), the 4kHz peak in one channel. Although Solderdude doesn't seem to see this in his measurements.

Looking at Oratory's measurements the HD620S has much bigger issues than the HI-X60 ...
 
I'd probably also include bluetooth headphones that you can run wired lossless via USB-C in your search, as that seems to be where most of the development of closed backs is these days.
 
Are there any that are decently tuned? (Preferably below €300)
 
Maybe you should look into the Sennheiser HD569. Bit of a bass boost, neutral presentation with a somewhat relaxed ear gain. Easy to drive, low distortion and very comfortable
 
I've been comparing measurements from Oratory1990 and it seems that it's not the eargain that is the problem. All headphones that I like are hugging the OE HTC quite nicely. The problem with the K371 could be the dip between 3 kHz and 4 kHz followed by a small peak at 6kHz. The DT770 also has a dip in that region, followed by a peak.
The HD6XX does not have this, nor does the Sundara. Both are close to the HTC curve in the ear gain region.
Also the Blessing 2 Dusk does not have a relaxed ear gain.
I'm trying to interpret Solderdudes measurements. The FiiO FT1 looks quite nice, apart from maybe the bump @100Hz. Looking at the measurements for the DT770 this might not be a problem. Comparing the ear gain region in his measurements is quite difficult.
 
... Starting to change my mind about the EQ... Once again EqualizerAPO has no effect. It's starting to get really frustrating having to re-install the damn thing every week or so. So more and more I'm leaning towards no EQ. Or someone could point me into the direction of a decent alternative? (doesn't have to be completely free)
 
I think your main priority is to sort out what frequencies that are damning to your listening experience. This is fairly easily done by playing around with EQ - boosting and lowering the amplitude of uppermids/low treble frequencies in order to sniff out where the problem area is. Perhaps start out with something that doesn’t grate on your ears like the HD650, and use that as a starting point.
This will also lead to way better recommendations:)

With regards to dips around 3-4k; this is very normal behaviour with closedback headphones, and you’ll see this type of response over most closed cans. Some are larger than others almost looking like distinct valleys and are very audible whereas others tend to be inaudible. Small/narrow dips like you find over the DT700 Pro X and HD620S fx are completely inaudible.
If you want to be on the safe side with regards to this and aim for an upper frequency response similar to what you find over openbacks, things get a tad more expensive with the DCA Noire X or it’s pricier brethren.
I seem to remember the Beyerdynamic DT250 also behaving very well in the upper frequencies, but that headphone sadly comes with an imbalance straight from the factory due to the cable connection. It is fixable, but personally I’d rather pay for a fully finished headphone. YMMV.
 
Are there any that are decently tuned? (Preferably below €300)
Open box audeze maxwell. Can use bt, USB c wired or even a wireless USB connector. I have a pair. Very good indeed.
 
I think your main priority is to sort out what frequencies that are damning to your listening experience. This is fairly easily done by playing around with EQ - boosting and lowering the amplitude of uppermids/low treble frequencies in order to sniff out where the problem area is. Perhaps start out with something that doesn’t grate on your ears like the HD650, and use that as a starting point.
This will also lead to way better recommendations:)

With regards to dips around 3-4k; this is very normal behaviour with closedback headphones, and you’ll see this type of response over most closed cans. Some are larger than others almost looking like distinct valleys and are very audible whereas others tend to be inaudible. Small/narrow dips like you find over the DT700 Pro X and HD620S fx are completely inaudible.
If you want to be on the safe side with regards to this and aim for an upper frequency response similar to what you find over openbacks, things get a tad more expensive with the DCA Noire X or it’s pricier brethren.
I seem to remember the Beyerdynamic DT250 also behaving very well in the upper frequencies, but that headphone sadly comes with an imbalance straight from the factory due to the cable connection. It is fixable, but personally I’d rather pay for a fully finished headphone. YMMV.
I've got EqualizerAPO running again (hopefully for a longer period now). So I can resume with playing with EQ. But I think I now what to look for in a frequency response. The main difficulty is the different measuring rigs used by different reviewers. It's sometimes hard to compare measurements this way.

Could the dip between 3 and 4kHz be the result of the depth of the closed volume behind the driver (reflections/cancellations)?

I've already put my DCA Aeon RT up for sale locally. But Now that I've got EQ running again I'm considering unpacking it and giving it a second chance. We'll see.
In the meantime I'll keep looking for a replacement that sounds better without having to apply EQ.

Open box audeze maxwell. Can use bt, USB c wired or even a wireless USB connector. I have a pair. Very good indeed.
Not exactly what I was looking for but surely an interesting suggestion. Bass-heavy but maybe not excessively so. Don't know what I will do with the mic. but it could come in handy at work.
Open box... any offerings in Europe? (couldn't find any) Import into the EU would make more expensive than buying a regular one.

For now my short-list is getting shorter:
FiiO FT1
Austrian Audio Hi-X60
 
I've got EqualizerAPO running again (hopefully for a longer period now). So I can resume with playing with EQ. But I think I now what to look for in a frequency response. The main difficulty is the different measuring rigs used by different reviewers. It's sometimes hard to compare measurements this way.

Could the dip between 3 and 4kHz be the result of the depth of the closed volume behind the driver (reflections/cancellations)?

I've already put my DCA Aeon RT up for sale locally. But Now that I've got EQ running again I'm considering unpacking it and giving it a second chance. We'll see.
In the meantime I'll keep looking for a replacement that sounds better without having to apply EQ.


Not exactly what I was looking for but surely an interesting suggestion. Bass-heavy but maybe not excessively so. Don't know what I will do with the mic. but it could come in handy at work.
Open box... any offerings in Europe? (couldn't find any) Import into the EU would make more expensive than buying a regular one.

For now my short-list is getting shorter:
FiiO FT1
Austrian Audio Hi-X60
The boom mic is detachable and indeed ships unattached .

Hifiheadphones.co.uk tend to have new and refurbished listings with warranty . https://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/pr...less-audiophile-gaming-headphones-refurbished

The fiio is currently getting a lot of love and looks like a good value proposition.
 
The boom mic is detachable and indeed ships unattached .

Hifiheadphones.co.uk tend to have new and refurbished listings with warranty . https://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/pr...less-audiophile-gaming-headphones-refurbished

The fiio is currently getting a lot of love and looks like a good value proposition.
Unfortunately, import taxes and fees also apply to products shipping from the UK.

The FiiO is indeed looking like something I could enjoy and fits easily into my budget.
 
I've already put my DCA Aeon RT up for sale locally. But Now that I've got EQ running again I'm considering unpacking it and giving it a second chance. We'll see.
In the meantime I'll keep looking for a replacement that sounds better without having to apply EQ.
I have no idea what's happening here.
I've unpacked the Aeon RT closed and I'm listening to it now. Switching between Amirs EQ, Oratorys EQ and a flat EQ only with pre-gain at -6.5dB (same as the other EQ profiles).
I have bass now. They're not excessively bright. With EQ they are a bit warmer and bass is a bit more balanced. But without any EQ they are quite good... With Amirs EQ profile they are great!
I think I've had this before. One day they sound great and the next I can't stand them. (I don't have this with other headphones) Very strange.
It is a bit dependent on the song. But in general the effect is quite confusing.
 
I'm still not 100% certain about what would make me happiest (I'm not unhappy as it is ;)).
I was considering the FiiO FT1, and that will stay an option as long as I have my doubts about EqualizerAPO. The Aeon RTs are good but I do love them a lot more with EQ.

The Audeze Maxwell is also still on the shortlist. But I'm not sure if it will work for me. Currently I'm swapping headphones when I get a call or need to join a meeting at work. That would be a thing of the past with the Maxwell I guess.
@Jimbob54 : Do I need the app to make the Maxwell work as intended (DSP, USB dongle, ...)? I would like to use it at work but I'm not allowed to install any software on my laptop. So everything has to work plug-and-play. I would use it for music listening, but also for phone calls. The USB dongle seems to have so slight audio quality issues when the USB port is on a shared bus with other devices.(USB would be a port on a docking station in my situation) So BT would work best I think. We run Windows11 on the work laptops. So LDAC should be supported.
I don't need ANC. There's not that much noise in the office most of the time, so I think I can get away with just having passive NC.
Does the USB dongle also work on Android phones?
Is it easy to switch between inputs? (connect USB to phone and BT to laptop and switch between the 2 when needed)

Do I want to spend this much for some headphones I will almost exclusively use at work?
 
Do I need the app to make the Maxwell work as intended (DSP, USB dongle, ...)?
You need the app to change the dsp settings , how the mic blends into audio etc but not for them to 'work'. I've got the app on my android phone and the settings 'stick' regardless of actual connection .

So everything has to work plug-and-play. I would use it for music listening, but also for phon
I've not used on pc but playstation was plug n play . Dongle works on my android phone too . There is a playstation version (not guaranteed to work on pc , then an Xbox /pc variant which also has an atmos licence .
 
Does the USB dongle also work on Android phones?
Is it easy to switch between inputs? (connect USB to phone and BT to laptop and switch between the 2 when needed)
Not sure how easy that is. Seems to go to BT if nothing else connected but dongle seems to trump BT and think wired usb trumps both but sure the audeze site etc will clarify .

Worth noting there is an internal mic which seems ok for casual gaming , if you don't attach the boom mic. and there's on the cup
 
I used a pair of DT770 Pros for many years until they just wore out. I decided on trying the AKG K371 and I couldn't be happier with the sound. They are not expensive and are comfortable for me to wear (I wear glasses).
 
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