Underwhelmed by Topping L30…

[SeaBeef]

Hi guys,

A have a few sets of headphones; Beyerdynamic DT880 250ohm, AKG K702, Audio Technica AD700 & M50x. I have always just used the Apple lightning to 3.5mm adapter with good results. I recently purchased a Topping L30 expecting a significant increase in volume, specifically with the 250ohm DT880’s, however was fairly underwhelmed when I received my L30.

I’ve found that the L30 on 0db gain and max volume is the same as the Apple lightning to 3.5mm adapter on max volume, across all headphones. It’s only when the L30 is put on +9db gain is when I get an increase in volume over the Apple.

Am I just expecting too much from the L30?

 

[SloPoke]

As I understand, the L30 requires a somewhat high input voltage to produce its best power (3 volts input required to get full power when on Hi?) . A 2 volt output voltage is pretty t;ypical for a lot of dacs and is not enough for the L30 to play as powerfully as it can.
I thought the L30 was more fun with more power when fed by a Chord Mojo over the Topping E30. The sound quality likely same and same levels, but was more gain available when using the Mojo because it could output a signal higher than the E30's 2 volts (Mojo does 2.5 volts? 3 volts? on output...can't remember)

Think there was some grumbling about the marketing of the E30 and L30 as a perfect pair, when the max voltage output of the E30 wasn't high enough to get the max volume out of the L30.

My guess is that you'll be happier if you can feed the L30 with 3 volt input signal (E30II is not capable of this and so you won't get all the volume possible out of L30). Changing to a source/dac that can do 3v output or changing to an amp that hits its volume potential with a 2 volt signal (L30 II?)

 

[lateralous]

An amp has one purpose and that's to get your headphones/speakers singing as loud as you could want. If you're not happy with the volume you're getting I think you've answered the question already, and should look for something with more juice .

 

[SeaBeef]

I was considering replacing the E30/L30 combo with a DX3 Pro+, but looking at the specs, am I right in assuming there would be even less volume with a DX3 Pro+?

 

[VintageFlanker]

am I right in assuming there would be even less volume with a DX3 Pro+?

You're right. You're going the wrong way.

If you're not happy with the volume you're getting I think you've answered the question already, and should look for something with more juice .

More juice than L30, with headphones mentioned, is 100% pointless.

The questions are : what actually feeds the L30 or why is that an issue to listen with +9dB Gain anyway?

 

[lateralous]

More juice than L30, with headphones mentioned, is 100% pointless.

The questions are : what actually feeds the L30 or why is that an issue to listen with +9dB Gain anyway?

Absolutely, I understood the statement incorrectly. If high gain setting provides the desired volume, use that. Looks like OP has E30 DAC feeding this.

 

[oleg87]

So the complaint is that the amp does not produce enough volume... when it's not set anywhere near max volume?

 

[charleski]

Don’t confuse gain and power. The volume you get from your headphones is entirely dependent on the gain, i.e. the voltage the amp is set to produce. At 0dB gain the amp isn’t adding anything to what comes in. If you want more volume then you need to increase the gain, as you found. Power is a measure of the amp’s ability to actually supply that voltage into the impedance of your headphones, which requires current. If it can’t supply enough current the voltage will sag and the amp will distort.

Gain = Voltage-out / Voltage-in
Power = Voltage * Current.

 

[staticV3]

@SeaBeef what DAC is plugged into the L30?

 

[SeaBeef]

@SeaBeef what DAC is plugged into the L30?

E30II, 2V output

 

[SeaBeef]

So the complaint is that the amp does not produce enough volume... when it's not set anywhere near max volume?

Even +9db max volume it’s not that loud. Compared to something like a Chord Mojo I used a while back, that thing was 3x as loud, and it’s portable. Was kind of expecting similar volumes with the L30

 

[staticV3]

E30II at full volume into L30 0dB gain, full volume will be ~1.6x as loud as the A2049 Apple dongle at full volume.
If it isn't, then you still have a volume limiter in place somewhere and one or both of the DACs aren't actually running at full volume.

You can check the actual output voltages of your DACs and Amps with a simple $10 multimeter.
Very handy for troubleshooting.

For reference, E30II at full volume into L30 9.5dB gain, full volume will be 3x as loud as the A2049 Apple dongle at full volume and 20% louder than the Chord Mojo at full volume.

 

[SeaBeef]

E30II at full volume into L30 0dB gain, full volume will be ~1.6x as loud as the A2049 Apple dongle at full volume.
If it isn't, then you still have a volume limiter in place somewhere and one or both of the DACs aren't actually running at full volume.

You can check the actual output voltages of your DACs with a simple $10 multimeter.
Very handy for troubleshooting.

From my testing, L30 0db gain full volume is exactly the same volume as A1749 full volume. +9db on the L30 would be around 1.6x louder.

I’ll check voltages shortly

 

[oleg87]

Even +9db max volume it’s not that loud. Compared to something like a Chord Mojo I used a while back, that thing was 3x as loud, and it’s portable. Was kind of expecting similar volumes with the L30

Sounds like you've got a volume knob somewhere earlier in the chain that isn't maxed out.
Assuming it's actually getting 2Vrms full-scale, both according to both manufacturer's specs and Amir's measurements it should be a bit louder than the mojo.

 

[SeaBeef]

Sounds like you've got a volume knob somewhere earlier in the chain that isn't maxed out.
Assuming it's actually getting 2Vrms full-scale, both according to both manufacturer's specs and Amir's measurements it should be a bit louder than the mojo.

E30II plugged into Nvidia Shield via USB, E30II in DAC mode, L30 on +9db full volume on knob. Only thing I can think of is an issue with either the E30 or L30.

Chord Mojo got to the point I could barely handle near full volume, E30/L30 I can comfortably listen on full volume

 

[staticV3]

Only thing I can think of is an issue with either the E30 or L30

With a multimeter you can check both that you're getting the DAC's full output, and that your Amp is delivering the gain that it should, by measuring the voltage going in and the voltage coming out.

When you do check the voltages, make sure you're using a 60Hz, 0dBFS test tone. You can create one using the free program REW.

 

[oleg87]

E30II plugged into Nvidia Shield via USB, E30II in DAC mode, L30 on +9db full volume on knob. Only thing I can think of is an issue with either the E30 or L30.

Chord Mojo got to the point I could barely handle near full volume, E30/L30 I can comfortably listen on full volume

I'm no Android expert and don't know if the E30II is affected by this, but could this be that Android USB audio volume limit issue you need UAPP to fix?

 

[antcollinet]

E30II at full volume into L30 0dB gain, full volume will be ~1.6x as loud as the A2049 Apple dongle at full volume.
If it isn't, then you still have a volume limiter in place somewhere and one or both of the DACs aren't actually running at full volume.

You can check the actual output voltages of your DACs and Amps with a simple $10 multimeter.
Very handy for troubleshooting.

For reference, E30II at full volume into L30 9.5dB gain, full volume will be 3x as loud as the A2049 Apple dongle at full volume and 20% louder than the Chord Mojo at full volume.

Have you taken into account there that for double percieved volume you need additional 10db?

 

[staticV3]

Have you taken into account there that for double percieved volume you need additional 10db?

Of course. "3x as loud" as in "3x the perceived loudness"

 

[bodhi]

Just how loud is loud? I'm now using the DX3 Pro+ and even with low gain it can get hellishly loud and I would fear for my hearing cranking it up at high gain.

There is the thing that when increasing the volume you kind of get used to the current level and to get a new "fix" when your next favorite song comes on you have to increase the volume. The possible damage to your ears is not dependent on the perceived loudness at the time of listening...