Tube vs Solid State Amplifiers

[Blumlein 88]

I was highly skeptical before I built it, but it turns out that I adore my Bottlehead Crack OTL headphone amp. I wouldn't try to convince anyone to go this route over a cheap, capable solid state amp for the sake of high fidelity, but it adds an unmistakable, pleasing character to the sound of my HD6XXs and looks great.

Since I'm already interested in high-efficiency speakers, I'm sure eventually I'll tackle a DIY tube power amp project for the fun of it.

What I won't ever do is spend thousands and thousands on high-end commercial tube gear under the delusion that it's better than solid state.

Here a suggestion. Use your Bottlehead Crack OTL as a preamp, feed it to a 200 wpc solid state amp (you may need to load the Crack OTL output with a 300 ohm resistor), and you'll hear the sound of a 200 wpc Crack OTL on speakers. I've done this before with a single ended xfmr couple tube headphone amp/ 3 watt power amp. It works.

 

[Severian]

Here a suggestion. Use your Bottlehead Crack OTL as a preamp, feed it to a 200 wpc solid state amp (you may need to load the Crack OTL output with a 300 ohm resistor), and you'll hear the sound of a 200 wpc Crack OTL on speakers. I've done this before with a single ended xfmr couple tube headphone amp/ 3 watt power amp. It works.

That sounds fun. Thanks for the idea!

 

[Xulonn]

But as a buyer, I don't see the appeal.

There are many things for sale that don't appeal to me, in audio and other areas of interest.

I am aware that the majority of audio enthusiasts are not "into" vacuum tube audio. If you are curious, come to these threads and read what we are up to and into. I, for one, would never denigrate you for not sharing my interests, because there in no innate quality to vacuum tubes that makes them "better" on an objective level. Yet they do have a wide variety of characteristics that can be evaluated from both subjective and objective perspective.

I have stated repeatedly that my interest in tubes is sentimental - something that is easy for a 78y/o person like me, and likely quite difficult for most young people.

 

[March Audio]

Which sounds best?

Problem we have is that tube amps are variable tone controls. They have variable frequency responses due to the output transformer and relatively high output impedance. This means they have a different frequency response with every different speaker you connect them. Every different speaker presents a different load. Just take a look at any Stereophile tube amp test.

So it's a complete lottery what a tube amp may sound like in your system.

Any tonal variations may or may not compliment a speaker or recording.

It's just simpler and cheaper to use a graphic equaliser if that's what you want to do. "Tube sound" is quite technically explainable.

They do distort more and change performance with wear and different replacement valves. So from a sonic point of view I think they are just a headache and not worth considering. A, random effects generator doesn't fit my definition of sounding better.

Aesthetically they are lovely. The pleasure of owning and using one may trump a person's desire for accurate sound reproduction.

 

[Wes]

 

[Celty]

Which sounds best?

Problem we have is that tube amps are variable tone controls. They have variable frequency responses due to the output transformer and relarively high output impedance. This means they have a different frequency response with every different speaker you connect them to as every different speaker presents a different load. Just take a look at any Stereophile tube amp test.

View attachment 47124

So it's a complete lottery what a tube amp may sound like in your system.

Any tonal variations may or may not compliment a speaker or recording.

It's just simpler and cheaper to use a graphic equaliser if that's what you want to do. "Tube sound" is quite technically explainable.

They do distort more and change performance with wear and different replacement valves. So from a sonic point of view I think they are just a headache and not worth considering. A, random effects generator doesn't fit my definition of sounding better.

Aesthetically they are lovely. The pleasure of owning and using one may trump a person's desire for accurate sound reproduction.

Specifically with headphones, the "negatives" you cite can also be positives. Many tube amp users love tweaking the sound for a specific set of cans for the outcome they are seeking. For them the flexibility of a tube amp to be customized is a big plus, and part of the fun.

I don't think describing them as a "random effects generator" is accurate. Experienced users know the effect of specific tubes and tube combinations in their particular amp and headphone. I'm not knocking SS amps, I use one. But neither do I knock the tube amp route. It's just a case of different strokes for different folks, or the same person to enjoy the variety the options pose.

 

[March Audio]

Specifically with headphones, the "negatives" you cite can also be positives. Many tube amp users love tweaking the sound for a specific set of cans for the outcome they are seeking. For them the flexibility of a tube amp to be customized is a big plus, and part of the fun.

I don't think describing them as a "random effects generator" is accurate. Experienced users know the effect of specific tubes and tube combinations in their particular amp and headphone. I'm not knocking SS amps, I use one. But neither do I knock the tube amp route. It's just a case of different strokes for different folks, or the same person to enjoy the variety the options pose.

As I said, a graphic equaliser is a simpler and cheaper option

Random may not be the most appropriate term, it should be taken in the context of the post. It's not random in the sense that it changes all the time, but it certainly is not predictable (without extensive technical data regarding the amp and load) and is variable with the specific load that's attached.

You can never say a particular amp is "good" because it's performance and results change with every different load. To me this variability is a deficiency not a virtue.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

For a very long time I was considering the don sachs amplifier. http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom kt88 tube amp.html
then for a while I was considering the bob carver 275 https://www.bobcarvercorp.com/copy-of-crimson-raven

then I realized I don't care or need any of this and my $300 chip amp from akitika is plenty of power, 50wpc into 8ohms, 70w into 4ohms for my 5.5ohm minimum 94dB sensitive jbl's.

that being said I still want a new amp. just for the audio jewellery bling. so i'm considering a mcintosh mc275.

 

[JeffS7444]

Tube amps can be educational: I bought a few inexpensive Chinese amps, learned how to fix the factory's errors, wound up with amps which put out a pretty nice 1 kHz square wave, at least into an 8 ohm resistor. Of course they didn't sound particularly tube-y then, but I was satisfied. Among other things I learned was how a grid-stopper resistor works, and how reducing negative feedback reduces bandwidth and increases distortion. I started as a typical audiophile tweaker fussing with designer capacitors, but wound up getting to know the value of an oscilloscope and function generator.

If I were to buy another tube amp today, this would be on my list:
https://www.vkmusic.ca/TU-8600.htm
Elekits are beautifully done: Manuals are top-notch, cabinets fit together perfectly. 300B BTU output is modest, and depending on which 300Bs you choose, they can look really cool too.

 

[cjm2077]

There are many things for sale that don't appeal to me, in audio and other areas of interest.

I am aware that the majority of audio enthusiasts are not "into" vacuum tube audio. If you are curious, come to these threads and read what we are up to and into. I, for one, would never denigrate you for not sharing my interests, because there in no innate quality to vacuum tubes that makes them "better" on an objective level. Yet they do have a wide variety of characteristics that can be evaluated from both subjective and objective perspective.

I have stated repeatedly that my interest in tubes is sentimental - something that is easy for a 78y/o person like me, and likely quite difficult for most young people.

I can see the nostalgia angle. I get why people haul out their old albums and still own a turntable, or use a tube amp. There are a lot of strong memories associated with all of that gear. But I would think those people would want equipment similar to what they used to have to evoke the nostalgia. I get that market. I don't get the SOTA tube amp market. 7k for an amp is a good answer, but non state of the art tube amps can sell for even more than that, so why put in the effort?

And I did mention upthread that they are a great way to get in to electronics and working on your own equipment. They have their place in general. I was speaking more to the specific niche within the niche.

 

[Xulonn]

I don't get the SOTA tube amp market. 7k for an amp is a good answer, but non state of the art tube amps can sell for even more than that, so why put in the effort?

Stop being logical Many people buy things for reasons that are not logical or rational.

I was around during the short-lived "pet-rock" craze in the 1970's.

Pet Rock is a collectible toy made in 1975 by advertising executive Gary Dahl. Pet Rocks are smooth stones from Mexico's Rosarito Beach. They were marketed like live pets, in custom cardboard boxes, complete with straw and breathing holes. The fad lasted about six months, ending after a short increase in sales during the Christmas season of December 1975. Although by February 1976 they were discounted due to lower sales, Dahl sold over 1 million Pet Rocks for $4 each, and became a millionaire.

 

[tdflance]

For what it’s worth, I own both tube and ss amps. Tube is Line Magnetic 805iA and SS is Accuphase E-480. They drive Harbeth 40.2 Anniversary, Harbeth P3ESR Anniversary, and a pair Graham Chartwell LS3/5A. I often mix and match amps and speakers in our sound room. I don’t think I could part with either amp. I feel the match up between the tube amp and all these speakers are super. Aesthetically, I think both amps look great, although most people do gravitate towards the tube amp. What I also think is cool is playing an LP that was mastered from the original analog tapes, through my MANLEY LABS CHINOOK MKII tube phono stage, through the tube amp, sounds sooo good. Even my 21-year-old son, got goose bumps listening to Supertramp this way and said he felt euphoric (and I don’t think he was on drugs, LOL). And to that, no matter what the pros or cons are to the topology of the devices I was using, at the end of the day, what is your experience, does the music move you.

 

[Xulonn]

Line Magnetic 805iA

Line Magnetic seems to be a respected brand, and is only available in 240v versions, and is actively marketed in Europe, but not in the Americas where in most countries - including here in Panama - home mains power is 120v.

Some of the better quality Chinese tube brands, including Meixing Ming-Da, are switching to dual-voltage (120/240v) power transformers. However, others that appeal to me, such as Yarland (pic below) have not made the switch to dual voltage, so they end up being somewhat popular in Europe where they have distributors and dealers, but not in the Americas.

 

[Wes]

is that Bubinga wood?

 

[tdflance]

Line Magnetic seems to be a respected brand, and is only available in 240v versions, and is actively marketed in Europe, but not in the Americas where in most countries - including here in Panama - home mains power is 120v.

Some of the better quality Chinese tube brands, including Meixing Ming-Da, are switching to dual-voltage (120/240v) power transformers. However, others that appeal to me, such as Yarland (pic below) have not made the switch to dual voltage, so they end up being somewhat popular in Europe where they have distributors and dealers, but not in the Americas.

View attachment 47225

I live in the US and was able to special order the Line Magnetic for 120v.

 

[Xulonn]

is that Bubinga wood?

The Yarland website says it is zebrano (zebrawood) for all of the "Yarland"Series" and Bubinga for the "Ariand Series." The grain is typical for zebrano, but it looks a little darker than usual - perhaps stained. Check out the website via my link - I think these are beautiful amplifiers, and I wonder if any of our ASR members from Europe or Asian countries have owned them?

 

[Xulonn]

I live in the US and was able to special order the Line Magnetic for 120v.

Did you buy it via an online dealer? Their style is too industrial for my tastes, but they do have a good reputation. Which model did you get? How long have you owned it? What speakers do you drive with it? Do you really like it?

 

[Marutks]

When they go to Can Jam and other shows, one of the setups they use to exhibit what the ZMF headphones are capable of, they include a Glenn amp.

Focal use Feliks Audio tube amplifiers to demo their flagship Utopia headphones. I would love to get glenn amp for my Verite.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

I was highly skeptical before I built it, but it turns out that I adore my Bottlehead Crack OTL headphone amp. I wouldn't try to convince anyone to go this route over a cheap, capable solid state amp for the sake of high fidelity, but it adds an unmistakable, pleasing character to the sound of my HD6XXs and looks great.

Since I'm already interested in high-efficiency speakers, I'm sure eventually I'll tackle a DIY tube power amp project for the fun of it.

What I won't ever do is spend thousands and thousands on high-end commercial tube gear under the delusion that it's better than solid state.

I built my own improved version of this circuit, which is, as they say "Crack is our version of classic OTL headphone amp designs of several years ago that were hailed as some of the best sounding of their day. "

Absolutely the best most enjoyable thing I have listened to via headphones.

 

[Xulonn]

I drove 25 miles down the mountain to our provincial capital this morning to pick up my vacuum tube amplifier at the freight forwarding company.

It's a single-ended design with auto-bias that can accept many different power tubes, from 6L6 to KT88. My Musical Paradise MP-301 Mk3 came with a pair of JJ 6L6's plus the highly-rated Genelec Gold Lion KT77's. Some will denigrate it because it uses printed circuit boards, but many fine tube amps do the same. Most tweakers prefer point-to-point wiring which makes it easy to swap caps and resistors.

The amp currently sits on my desk next to my computer monitor where I can admire it. Fit and finish are superb. If it is quiet and performs decently, I will not hesitate to recommend it as an "entry-level" tube amplifier for those who are curious and want to try tube amplification.

The solid, well-constructed MP301 Mk3 weighs 22 lb (10kg) and is rated at 6.5wpc - compared to the estimated 40wpc from my Chi-Fi desktop mini-DAC/Amp, a little 1.4lb (640g) "I.AM.D" model v200 that sits under my computer monitor in the below photo. (The I.AM.D., like the Musical Paradise tube amp, is also a remarkable "off the radar" audio component that is well made, and works perfectly in my system.)

Obviously, I have not yet installed it in my main system, which is a few feet to my left in my office/media room. However, I will probably do that tomorrow and enjoy an extended listening session. I am curious as to whether it will sound compressed or distorted during loud, bass-heavy sections, especially with movies. Do I expect it to "outperform" or "sound better" than my Classé Model Seventy 70wpc Class-AB amp? Absolutely not! So why then, did I buy it?

Primarily because it brings back pleasant memories of my first amplifier, a used Bell 6L6 Bell Model 2300 mono amp that my dad bought for me in 1958 when I was a high school student. (However, I do find the Musical Paradise amp to be much more attractive than the old Bell amplifier.)