Trinnov Waveforming finally released

[sigbergaudio]

Today Trinnov finally released v4.4.0 of the software for the Altitude platform, which includes the long awaited Waveforming(tm) technology. For those eager to try I will discreetly point out the recently updated Sigberg Audio Inkognito subwoofers are awesome for this very purpose.

Announcement from Trinnov:

Trinnov | Trinnov releases software version 4.4.0 for the Altitude Platform

Trinnov releases software version 4.4.0 for the Altitude Platform including the public release of its latest technology WaveForming

www.trinnov.com

The Inkognito subwoofer:

https://www.sigbergaudio.com/products/inkognitosubwoofer

Below are a couple of measurements done with a Beta version of Trinnov Waveforming with Inkognito subwoofers.

 

[kemmler3D]

A fantastic result. Only $20K for the entry level unit... :weeps:

 

[sigbergaudio]

A fantastic result. Only $20K for the entry level unit... :weeps:

Yes, Trinnov pricing is not for the feint of heart.

 

[Paffi]

I´m still hoping, they will release waveforming for the Nova in some time.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Useful link for those getting started:

WaveForming Starter Kit

Trinnov's exclusive WaveForming Technology has been released. This page regroups all the resources required to install and enjoy the benefit of WaveForming

hub.trinnov.com

 

[TGB]

LFE with LR4 low pass filter at 120Hz. Inkognito in 4-4 layout. With Trinnov software version 4.4.0 (released today). Some improvements done during the last week, hence other result.

 

[8bits]

So this would be a competing product to Dirac Bass Control? Or are there differences in what it is trying to achieve?

 

[kemmler3D]

Having looked at the info page a bit more, it seems like "double bass array in a box" which is cool, but if you are willing to DIY it, I am not sure how much acoustic secret sauce Trinnov has put in here, vs. simply creating a good user experience for something that is pretty fiddly to set up yourself.

 

[TGB]

Having looked at the info page a bit more, it seems like "double bass array in a box" which is cool, but if you are willing to DIY it, I am not sure how much acoustic secret sauce Trinnov has put in here, vs. simply creating a good user experience for something that is pretty fiddly to set up yourself.

You are in some ways right, difference is that DBA works in a close to perfect room (similar for Dirac's system); while Trinnov WaveForming is a DBA on steroids which is extremely flexible regarding placement, room, number of subs on front wall vs back wall, and it also is parameter controlled via UI. Which mean you can control strength of decay control, strength of waveforming and other parameters directly from UI in seconds. Besides, it is very easy to set up given even sound for a large area of multiple rows with less than 1-2dB in difference between all seats.

It also works in a setup with only 4 subs. And the WaveForming got a lot of different special sauce taken into account the room for how the waves are created planar wave using 3 or more subs on each wall. So absorbing the waves on the back wall is just a small part of the entire system. Supporting different levels, you need minimum 3 subs on each wall to create a planar wave; else it will be cylindrical (works fine for one row of seats).

 

[Oddball]

Pretty impressive results. Not knowing much about the wave tech (yet to do my reading), I would imagine that this does not work any magic on bed channels, only on dedicated subs? So the idea would be even with big bed towers to cross them at 80hz?

Would there be any way to squeeze a bit more out of towers and still get the benefit of the wave tech? Trinnov does have very sophisticated bass management/routing so how does the wave tech work with those?

 

[TGB]

Pretty impressive results. Not knowing much about the wave tech (yet to do my reading), I would imagine that this does not work any magic on bed channels, only on dedicated subs? So the idea would be even with big bed towers to cross them at 80hz?

Would there be any way to squeeze a bit more out of towers and still get the benefit of the wave tech? Trinnov does have very sophisticated bass management/routing so how does the wave tech work with those?

Currently it only works on subs, and yes - crossover at 80Hz is recommended (depending on what issues you have in the room for the other speakers). You can crossover at any frequency, but obviously you want to benefit from the magic of WaveForming. The Trinnov Bass Management and routing is full supported (you can also crossover to nearest bed channel speaker(s) via satellite(s) before crossover to WaveForming), but obviously you need to cross over to all the subs included in WaveForming. Expect there to be an option to use the subs on the rear wall as emitters in future bass management; selecting if crossover comes from front or rear. This is only the first revision of WaveForming, I expect improvements and new features will come for the next 10 years regarding this technology.

Since the Wave is planar, it is impossible to locate each individual sub - hence you can crossover much higher without any possibility of locating the subs. Inkognito works fine up to 240-250Hz before rolling off.

 

[staticV3]

So this would be a competing product to Dirac Bass Control? Or are there differences in what it is trying to achieve?

Dirac Bass Control is an automated version of Multi Sub Optimizer.

It optimizes frequency response across multiple listening positions.

Trinnov Waveforming OTOH uses speakers and subwoofers to cancel out room modes, thereby reducing decay times without traditional room treatment.

Dirac's version of this is called Dirac Active Room Treatment.

 

[TGB]

Dirac Bass Control is an automated version of Multi Sub Optimizer.

It optimizes frequency response across multiple listening positions.

Trinnov Waveforming OTOH uses speakers and subwoofers to cancel out room modes, thereby reducing decay times without traditional room treatment.

Dirac's version of this is called Dirac Active Room Treatment.

WaveForming only utilize subwoofers; no speakers involved (they are still handled by normal Trinnov Optimizer). Trinnov and Dirac uses completely different technologies here; not saying one is doing it wrong - but they are not equal in any way. What I do know is that WaveForming is much more forgiving of the room and layout.

For my setup, no acoustic treatment at all for the low frequencies. Normal livingroom, with an open area to kitchen and home office to the left; wall with windows on right side - even here I get these results.

 

[Oddball]

WaveForming only utilize subwoofers; no speakers involved (they are still handled by normal Trinnov Optimizer). Trinnov and Dirac uses completely different technologies here; not saying one is doing it wrong - but they are not equal in any way. What I do know is that WaveForming is much more forgiving of the room and layout.

For my setup, no acoustic treatment at all for the low frequencies. Normal livingroom, with an open area to kitchen and home office to the left; wall with windows on right side - even here I get these results.

Thanks for the insights. So I gather that your room is not rectangular and has what would be more appropriate to call "irregular" shape?

I am in the same position room-wise and have been lurking at Trinnov for a while, but this gave me some more thinking to do as have pretty capable bed channels that I would hate to cross at 80hz.

Even now I do have my 4 subs set-up in kind of array, 2 front and 2 back as that provides optimal response in the MLP while not wracking havoc in the adjacent open spaces and neighbouring rooms.

 

[Fidji]

Having looked at the info page a bit more, it seems like "double bass array in a box" which is cool, but if you are willing to DIY it, I am not sure how much acoustic secret sauce Trinnov has put in here, vs. simply creating a good user experience for something that is pretty fiddly to set up yourself.

I had professionally set-up DBA configuration of subs 4x4. It was great leap compared to my previous setup of standard 8 subs. I was part of beta early access - and WF moved it couple of notches higher, in terms of impulse, group delay and uniform decay basically from 30Hz up.

One additional tech vs DBA is so called Pressurisation - where unlike DBA, that tries to cancel everything, Trinnov is actively pressurizing the room below first modal frequency, so you get couple of Hz and dB more below 20Hz from the same subs setup.

One of positive side effects was that I could completely forget about issues in 50-100Hz area, as resonances got removed almost completely, so I could re-think whole acoustic treatment strategy, remove some heavy absorption/resonators that were necessary, improving overall balance across the spectrum [my overall RT60 moved from 0.2 to 0.24 and it sounds better]. Also transition between subs and speakers is now absolutely seamless.

This short decay below 100Hz can become pretty addictive. In movies, it conveys the sense of space/size and then sensation of much more naturally sounding, especially in outdoor scenes. I am not a native speaker, so it might sound clumsy what I am trying to say. Long story short - every other setup I could hear lately was just heavy formless mud, compared to WF.

I am sure lot of measurements before/after will pop up, as many Trinnov users are tweakers. I am curious to see specifically 2+2 cylindrical setups [not DBA], how WF works there.

 

[Fidji]

WaveForming only utilize subwoofers; no speakers involved (they are still handled by normal Trinnov Optimizer). Trinnov and Dirac uses completely different technologies here; not saying one is doing it wrong - but they are not equal in any way. What I do know is that WaveForming is much more forgiving of the room and layout.

For my setup, no acoustic treatment at all for the low frequencies. Normal livingroom, with an open area to kitchen and home office to the left; wall with windows on right side - even here I get these results.

Mr. Lot of B&W speakers, is it you, my virtual friend?

BTW - I can attest to changes in algorythm - I had first Pressurisation release from around ISE time and it required some tweaking at that time, now I could remove all my adjustments and it sounds better after re-calculating.

 

[TGB]

I am in the same position room-wise and have been lurking at Trinnov for a while, but this gave me some more thinking to do as have pretty capable bed channels that I would hate to cross at 80hz.

Currently I have 100Hz crossover for my B&W 801D4 speakers. But the bonus is that my ceiling speakers are OK down to below 100Hz; so these are also crossed over at 100Hz, avoiding the satellite(s) configuration.

 

[TGB]

Mr. Lot of B&W speakers, is it you, my virtual friend?

It's me! Nice to see you here as well.

 

[Keith_W]

I had professionally set-up DBA configuration of subs 4x4. It was great leap compared to my previous setup of standard 8 subs. I was part of beta early access - and WF moved it couple of notches higher, in terms of impulse, group delay and uniform decay basically from 30Hz up.

Would you be able to share more details please? 4x4 meaning 16 subs per wall? And can you show us some measurements?

 

[TGB]

4-4 layout is 4 on front wall and 4 on back wall, 2 times 2x2 array, @Fidji must correct me if my interpretation of his DBA setup is wrong (just can not remember him saying 16 subs at any point during WaveForming testing).