Topping RD3 TP Balanced DAC Review

[TonyJZX]

re: e-waste

there's a STRONG possibilty these two units will end up as e-waste given their.... pedigree... provenance.

i do think making things 19" wide for the sake of it does have a toll on packing and logistics... but its going to be absolutely minimal and once off.

I had an amp shipped from China and the box ended up being close to 30kg? 65lb? and of course 19" x 19"

and it cost a far bit but you go into this knowing what to expect

also these two are free ship from Aliexpress so what do i care lol

 

[amirm]

Did you test the remote for range/directionality/functionality? Topping is not known for the efficacy of their remote implementations...

I use the remote for all my testing. But no, I don't check for range. Anyone can test for that and report. You don't need me for that.

 

[amirm]

there's a STRONG possibilty these two units will end up as e-waste given their.... pedigree... provenance.

If this thing dies, I will keep the box and make something else out of it. It is a very valuable box for other uses.

Let's remember that the manufacturing process here is very efficient and hence the reason Topping can keep prices low. We are taking about stamped steel. This is unlike machined aluminum that the standard DACs are routinely made out of.

 

[jomo]

My recommendations are mine, i.e. personal. Since I never use S/PDIF or Coax, it is a non factor for me in giving a product a recommendation. That said, I did pause a bit before giving golfing panther. Initially I was going to use the happy one. But then thought about, realized the transparent response with gorgeous features and low price, I thought it was fitting of the golfing panther. I provide a poll so you all can choose otherwise. But please don't call my motives in question. I don't let that get into the picture.

Sorry, I understood that your "panther rating" was based purely on engineering excellence, not considering price, features, defect audibility or features that you particularly use/don't use.

If this is the case, your vote should not count any more than any other's personal vote (hidden in the poll). There should be no bias and the test data alone should tell the story. Isn't that what ASR is all about?

I just pulled up your video on digital audio and low and behold, the Onkyo RZ50 (Pioneer LX-505 clone) was used as a sample of poorly resolved jitter. Maybe Topping RD3 data should be used on the next high jitter video.

Is Digital Audio Transmission Analog? [video]

A new argument has developed that transmission of digital audio is really analog. And for this reason, everything digital can be subject to audible difference from digital audio cables to digital output of streamers. This was emphasizes in a video by Darko Audio saying this explains his...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Doodski]

I feel like squirting a little oil on a squeeky nut. LoL...

 

[DearSX]

What on earth makes it weigh 20 lbs? For several ounces of circuitry.

Aluminum case, its a Denafrips R2R

 

[Hasan Aydin]

I have my RME Digiface interface, so no use of USB here. Jitter looks too high and I doubt it would be inaudible in an AB comparison. I don’t care about THD+N, Jitter sounds far more worse.

 

[JSmith]

Is there a setting to adjust DPLL? It should help with jitter on toslink.

I don't think I've seen any Topping DAC with adjustable DPLL when using ESS... mostly SMSL.

I don’t care about THD+N, Jitter sounds far more worse.

Unsure if you realise how high the level of jitter needs to be for it to become audible at all? Generally the most audible issues are IMD and noise.

Understanding Jitter in Digital Audio: Measurements and Listening Tests

Yet another video, this time on topic of jitter. It is a tough topic to cover and I had to do it over and simplify it from my first "take." Hopefully you can follow it. :) Article: understanding digital audio measurements...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals

Author, our resident expert DonH50 Jitter 101 Jitter is yet another one of those things not terribly hard to understand but with lots and lots of nuances and seemingly hidden details. To begin, let’s define some terms, starting with aperture time. Figure 1 shows a signal we want to sample...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals Part 2

Author: our resident expert, DonH50 We left Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals talking about digital signals. However, error correction and design margins mean jitter on the digital bit stream is rarely an issue for the bit rates used for A/V systems. (At 10 Gb/s and above, it is a bigger...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[Mart68]

So imagine you live in a house, you have fairly modern and good looking furnitures, then you have this industrial rack with components screwed in, and it's right next to your modern TV.

Ehh. . .I think it's better in a networking closet.
View attachment 306213

Rack mount doesn't have to be like that. Can look tidy and aesthetically pleasing:


https://dedupelist.com/

 

[TonyJZX]

those two cabinets look like you're about to detonate some shit in Oppenheimer

I dont mind that aesthetic but again, there's heaps of people who really dont like as seen in two threads and are really vocal about it for some reason

 

[Veri]

I love topping to death, but damn dude, what is going on with these recent products?

The SMSL M300se is $100 cheaper, better looking, better performing, and comes with a "free" headphone amp. There's also SMSL DO100, C200, D6, I could go on and on. This product makes no sense at all, just like the RA3 made no sense.

$500 gets you this and the RA3. Then you have two huge plain black rackmount boxes (non-removable ears, too lol) with basic white segmented displays straight out of a VCR from 2001, making a whopping 57w at @8R.

Or, it gets you the Sabaj A30a, which is gorgeous and makes 2.3x as much power @4R, has full bass management (!!!), and an analog input for the occasional record spin. Or, the SMSL M300se and an Audiophonics MPA-S125NC XLR. Or for the price of ONE of these, you can get the M300se and a Fosi V3. And the completely audible SINAD hit will be dwarfed by the power advantage.

All of the above take up a fraction of the volume in space that these behemoths require.

Well this is Topping's introductionary products to the pro market. I guess they'll wait and see how big of a success they'll be. You can combine some small home devices like the SU-1 for less money, sure.

About the M300se, it is not measured here or at @WolfX-700 (he seems away for some time now?). Also there was an 'update' version right after the first batch which gives me an idea of caution...

 

[Hasan Aydin]

I don't think I've seen any Topping DAC with adjustable DPLL when using ESS... mostly SMSL.

Unsure if you realise how high the level of jitter needs to be for it to become audible at all? Generally the most audible issues are IMD and noise.

Understanding Jitter in Digital Audio: Measurements and Listening Tests

Yet another video, this time on topic of jitter. It is a tough topic to cover and I had to do it over and simplify it from my first "take." Hopefully you can follow it. :) Article: understanding digital audio measurements...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals

Author, our resident expert DonH50 Jitter 101 Jitter is yet another one of those things not terribly hard to understand but with lots and lots of nuances and seemingly hidden details. To begin, let’s define some terms, starting with aperture time. Figure 1 shows a signal we want to sample...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals Part 2

Author: our resident expert, DonH50 We left Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals talking about digital signals. However, error correction and design margins mean jitter on the digital bit stream is rarely an issue for the bit rates used for A/V systems. (At 10 Gb/s and above, it is a bigger...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

-120db is roughly the threshold for the average human. For some people it may be higher or lower. This DAC shows jitter peaks as low as -100db.
So I wouldn't say it is absolutely inaudible for everyone.

 

[Veri]

-120db is roughly the threshold for the average human. For some people it may be higher or lower. This DAC shows jitter peaks as low as -100db.
So I wouldn't say it is absolutely inaudible for everyone.

(from https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...y-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734)

Should be fine.

 

[daniboun]

if we only consider performance, in the end I wonder what a chipset like the AKM4499 or the ESS9038 brings more than an AKM4493 .... since this DAC measures as well as a Sabaj D5 for example .... I imagine that there is a share of marketing in it)

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I don't think I've seen any Topping DAC with adjustable DPLL when using ESS... mostly SMSL.

Unsure if you realise how high the level of jitter needs to be for it to become audible at all? Generally the most audible issues are IMD and noise.

Understanding Jitter in Digital Audio: Measurements and Listening Tests

Yet another video, this time on topic of jitter. It is a tough topic to cover and I had to do it over and simplify it from my first "take." Hopefully you can follow it. :) Article: understanding digital audio measurements...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals

Author, our resident expert DonH50 Jitter 101 Jitter is yet another one of those things not terribly hard to understand but with lots and lots of nuances and seemingly hidden details. To begin, let’s define some terms, starting with aperture time. Figure 1 shows a signal we want to sample...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals Part 2

Author: our resident expert, DonH50 We left Digital Audio Jitter Fundamentals talking about digital signals. However, error correction and design margins mean jitter on the digital bit stream is rarely an issue for the bit rates used for A/V systems. (At 10 Gb/s and above, it is a bigger...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

Topping D70 pro sabre has option to adjust DPLL.
And yes I'm aware of jitter "audibility", thanks for your concern.

 

[amirm]

Sorry, I understood that your "panther rating" was based purely on engineering excellence, not considering price, features, defect audibility or features that you particularly use/don't use.

Well you were confused then.

If this is the case, your vote should not count any more than any other's personal vote (hidden in the poll). There should be no bias and the test data alone should tell the story. Isn't that what ASR is all about?

My vote counts for whatever it counts. It doesn't need your opinion. My recommendation means whether I would buy such a product if I were in a market for it. I am able to buy expensive things so i don't always take price into account. However, i change that stance when it comes to very high value products. To wit, I don't rate a dongle selling for $50 same as a $1,000 DAC. Ultimately though, as I mentioned, it is a personal assessment based on data, my experience and general feeling/conclusion. As such, it is not open to you complaining about it. Post your vote as others have.

 

[amirm]

I just pulled up your video on digital audio and low and behold, the Onkyo RZ50 (Pioneer LX-505 clone) was used as a sample of poorly resolved jitter. Maybe Topping RD3 data should be used on the next high jitter video.

Once again, its USB performance is near perfect. There was no perfect digital input on the Onkyo much less the one that is most commonly used.

 

[Sokel]

Can't find a picture of the guts anywhere.
Someone???

 

[ocinn]

Well this is Topping's introductionary products to the pro market. I guess they'll wait and see how big of a success they'll be. You can combine some small home devices like the SU-1 for less money, sure.

This is my entire point. These products are useless for the pro market. As someone who works in professional audio I can tell you that there is zero market for these.

In live/integration settings you will have a network processor (QSys, BSS, Biamp, etc) handle the D/A to be distro’d to speakers/amps. In studio settings no AES and no wordclock makes this useless. It also has no studio friendly features (monitor switching etc…). If you run a studio that requires rackmount gear and is uncomfortable using higher performing consumer equipment, you have the budget to buy a real studio DA (or ideally a processor to manage subwoofer control like Trinnov) and not this...


And it’s even worse for the RA3. $114/ch vs $58/ch for competitors which take up 1u less. Performance is irrelevant in 95% of pro audio settings as ambient noise floor will dwarf noise and distortion. But cost and space savings and reliabilty are hugely important.

These topping devices are highly overpriced vs higher performing home audio competition and frankly useless and inconvenient for pro audio settings. It makes no sense to me why these exist.

About the M300se, it is not measured here or at @WolfX-700 (he seems away for some time now?). Also there was an 'update' version right after the first batch which gives me an idea of caution...

Good point, however SMSL has AP555x measurements released and their numbers have always been damn near spot on when compared to Amir and Wolf independent testing. Not to mention we are quite familiar with the performance of the chip used in the 300 and their numbers check out.

-120db is roughly the threshold for the average human. For some people it may be higher or lower.

Please post your -120db klippel 2tone listening test result. I’ll wait.

 

[JSmith]

Can't find a picture of the guts anywhere.

Nor can I.

And yes I'm aware of jitter "audibility", thanks for your concern.

No worries, however that part wasn't directed at you anyway. I must say regardless of audibility, it's not good to see that level anyway on the toslink input.


JSmith