Topping Quality Control/Reliability

[Bel Canto]

Interested to hear thoughts on Topping quality control and reliability.

Thinking back to the L30 debacle, the recent PA5 issues and now in the space of a week, there have been 2 reasonable You Tube reviewers who have had issues.

Josh Valour reviewed A90 discrete and when using the single ended output, shorted his unit out.

IIWI reviews today mentioned that his DX5 has died for no apparent reason.

I've personally had an issue with a E30 and a PA3 that had to be replaced.

While I think Topping make good sounding and measuring gear, the reliability issues are really making me think twice about buying any further products.

Interested to hear thoughts and opinions.

 

[8bits]

Disclaimer: While this discussion is all anecdotal since we don't know true numbers, which only Topping knows (and is not forefront about it), there's merit in discussing the facet of their current business model.

I've never seen a small company like Topping releasing so many products at a breakneck pace, and I think this is hurting their QC. While consumer electronics giants like Apple, Samsung, et al do release new versions every year, they have a huge budget and workforce behind them.

I am not sure if they do it because it's their business model, since their consumers expect this level of release pace, or is it because they feel they need to do it to be relevant in the market.
I have a couple of decades of experience working in tech, and I know how hard it is the whole process of designing, manufacturing, and maintaining a product. Once you have a good amount of them in your portfolio, you either streamline how you design/build them so they have a lot in common or you shrink your portfolio or you grow your team to support it all, there's no way around it.

At some point, I think they will need to consolidate their product line (not having that many DACs, amps, etc) a bit to improve their focus, be it on engineering, sales, post-sales, and quality control.

I do have a Topping D70S MQA (that I replaced with a Minidsp Flex), and I loved it, but I share your sentiment that I would NOT buy a new product from them until I am condifent that they improved this situation.

 

[HorizonsEdge]

Topping D30 been on for almost 5 years. Used daily. Never had an issue.

I do think that model churn is a problem. Speeding things up reduces the margin for error in everything.


Back in the day we used a mean-time-to-failure model to replace server in our data center. Full refresh at -6mMTTF (what an acronym). Every brand had a different failure factor; SunMicro, Dell, Compaq, IBM. After the refresh we would sell all the replaced server overseas.

Unshielded consumer electronics can generally be expected to fail. Weakness can develop anywhere. We also have to acknowledge environmental and usage factors once the consumer is involved.

So unless there are hundreds of reports about failures there really is no basis for concern.

Furthermore, over generalizing and sensationalizing a forum topic is bad form IMHO.

 

[Bel Canto]

So unless there are hundreds of reports about failures there really is no basis for concern.

Furthermore, over generalizing and sensationalizing a forum topic is bad form IMHO.

Have you read the PA5 thread on this forum, or the D30pro thread etc.

So many issues among so few people is a cause for concern IMHO

 

[BlackTalon]

7+ months with an EX5 and zero issues.

 

[mdsimon2]

Have you read the PA5 thread on this forum, or the D30pro thread etc.

So many issues among so few people is a cause for concern IMHO

I find it very interesting to compare the reliability concerns of the Hypex MP amplifiers with the Topping PA5.

Hypex

Class D amp long term reliability

Inexpensive today? A little over ten years ago Yamaha produced their NS-1000 speakers for $1000 a pair, and sold many. Today their replacement for the NS-1000 is their NS-5000 for $15,000 a pair, which granted their replacement is quite higher performance, but it sure doesn't seem to me like...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Reliability of Hypex modules - Early failure of NC252MP module

I use Nord-assembled 4-channel amps for my main system, which requires 8 channels for a pair of Linkwitz LX521.4. I bought the first of these two amps in Jan. 2020 for a pair of LXmini. They use the OEM NC252MP modules from Hypex. One 2-channel module within that amp has now failed. The other...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping

Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

Poll for PA5 owners to report product defects. Discussion for any solutions. I think it would be useful to get a handle on some numbers to estimate just how wide spread the issues are. Addendum: Here is Topping's response to the PA5 issues...

www.audiosciencereview.com

When you look at Hypex failure data from Buckeye -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ne-up-announcement.16835/page-64#post-1023921 it is clear that at least in the short term Hypex MP amplifiers are much more reliable than the Topping PA5.

I find it very odd that so many people ignore the experience of previously happy PA5 owners that have run in to issues as sensationalization.

Michael

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't own any Topping products.

The problem with this kind of question is that the more they sell the more you hear complaints. If you ask about cars you'd get a lot of Honda and Toyota complaints and fewer Mazda complaints because there are fewer Mazdas on the road.

I think the same thing happens with Behringer (which I also don't own). ...They sell millions of units and you'll read thousands of complaints. Many people will report no-problems but, "The squeaky wheel..." The low price of Behringer products doesn't help their reputation either.

In general, solid state electronics are very reliable. As long as they are built correctly they can last "almost forever" with some units "failing randomly" over time. If there is poor quality control and a production error you might get a DOA unit or an early failure. A poor design might have bad performance but in most cases it will be "stable" and reliable (with continued bad performance for many years).

I tend to buy "cheap electronics" because even higher-priced products usually aren't worth repairing if they fail. It kind of makes you sick if your high priced AVR breaks and it's cheaper to buy a new one or replace it with something cheaper. You don't feel too bad if your cheap AVR fails and you just go buy another one...

 

[middlemarch]

I doubt anyone is actively keeping track, but my Topping L30 || has given up the ghost with barely 6 weeks of occasional use. This gives it the dubious distinction of being the earliest failure of any electronic device I've owned in the past 50 years, by quite a comfortable margin. Sure wish JDS was making a more powerful amp.

 

[maxp779]

I had issues with every bit of Topping gear I bought. Luckily I was able to send most of it back or solve the issue myself.

D10 / E30 - Faint humm though speakers even when no music is playing. They connect to a Marantz PM8005 amp. Optical instead of USB solves this.
A90 - Same issue as above, except through headphones.
L30 - This guy was recalled.

People have told me the weird humm noise is a ground loop and I am not arguing that it's not. However I had a loan of a Rotel A12 (amp with DAC built in) and it had no issues. I also now have a Schiit Modi+ as a direct drop in replacement for the E30, same cables, same setup, nothing else has changed, it's hooked up to the same old Marantz amp and connected directly to my computer via USB. No issues. It's only the Topping stuff that gives me grief.

Seeing the issues other people seem to be having with other Topping gear means I'll be steering clear of the brand in the future.

 

[thisiscrs]

Is this still a thing or have the failures become less in the meantime? I'm actually planning to get the E50 and L50. But if the devices give up the ghost so quickly, I'd rather switch to another manufacturer.

 

[ahramlee]

Is this still a thing or have the failures become less in the meantime? I'm actually planning to get the E50 and L50. But if the devices give up the ghost so quickly, I'd rather switch to another manufacturer.

I own the following Topping products:

D90SE
D90LE
U90 (2)
D50S (5)
P50 (4)

Just this past weekend, both of my U90 DDCs (purchased in July and November of last year, respectively) stopped getting recognized by both computers they are connected to (Win11 and Mac Mini).

The Topping “factory” suggested two ways to troubleshoot:

1. Upgrade the driver to the latest version (5.62.0)

2. Disconnect everything except power cable and usb cable (shorter than 1.5m)

Neither of their suggestions yielded a fix for either of my units. Mind you that both PC and Mac had no issues until this weekend, and the Mac never required a driver in the first place.

At this point I explained to them that this quality control issue puts their reputation at risk, as many on this thread have conveyed. I’m currently in contact with the support team at shenzhenaudio, where I purchased the U90 DDCs. I will provide an update once my issues have been addressed and hopefully resolved to my satisfaction.