Topping LA90D (dual in mono mode) or a used Classé CA-200?

[BrokenOath]

Here is the thing guys:
I am on the market for an amp, I have been searching both used and new.
My options are:
-Topping LA90 (used), LA90D (new)
-Classé CA-200 (used) or CA-2200 (used)

I currently own a Classé CA-100 (recapped and serviced to new by Classé just a year ago) and I like it, but I feel like the bass could be better, especially when paired with the Gustard R-26.
Currently, on my local used audio market, I could buy a used never modified:
- Classé CA-200 for $1800 CAD (==$1315 US), 200w in 8ohm, 400w in 4ohm
- Classé CA-2200 for $2500 (==$1828 US), 200w in 8ohm, 400w in 4ohm
- a pair of Topping LA90 for $1500 (== $1097 US).
- a pair of Topping LA90D for $2400 CAD (==$1755 US) new on Amazon.

I have read the reviews/measurements of the Topping LA90 here and elsewhere, but I am still undecided on these amps. All of the reviews mention a lack of bass, but extremely detailed.
If you were in my place which of the above would you choose?
Is anyone here familiar with the Classe CA-100 and CA-200, from a sonic standpoint, is the CA-200 "better than the CA-100?
Leave good measurement aside, can the Topping really compare with top tier North American amps such as Krell KSA series, Classé CA series, ect.?

Here is the system where it will be used:

Speakers: Klipsch Klipschhorns (105dB/w/meter)
Preamp: Classé Audio five (I also own a Classé Audio Six, as well as a tube preamp) -- All three are excellent
DAC: Gustard R-26 or SMSL SU-10
Room: 13ft x 18ft, seating 11ft away from the front stage

 

[AaronJ]

I hate to be a person who offers an answer that has little to do with the question, but the solution to your perceived bass problem in your particular scenario likely has nothing to do with the amplifier. Have you considered DSP?

 

[BrokenOath]

I hate to be a person who offers an answer that has little to do with the question, but the solution to your perceived bass problem in your particular scenario likely has nothing to do with the amplifier. Have you considered DSP?

I hear you, that's a valid suggestion, however I don't like adding any processing in my audio stream. Furthermore, if I were to add any type of DSP processing, it would have to be via software since none of my equipment has any such capability.

 

[Doodski]

@BrokenOath is your system loud enough right now? It should be I think with the efficiency of those Klipsch speakers. Does it have enough bass and treble? is there specific regions of the frequency response that you think need improvement? (PEQ may be a solution.)

 

[Jim Taylor]

A piece of advice that may (or may not) be relevant:

Put on a bass tone, if you can. If you can't, then put on a track with an almost continuous bass line ... one that repeats over and over again. Then walk around the room, back and forth and up and down.

If the bass deficiency that you mention is related to room modes, there will be an area where the bass is strong and an area where it is weak. Hopefully, you will find out that the weak area (null area) is where you sit, and that the bass in another area is quite satisfactory.

I'm crossing my fingers on this ... get back to me if you can.

Jim

p.s. - If that doesn't pan out, you might consider a unit such as this.

 

[Doodski]

I don't like adding any processing in my audio stream.

Why not? PEQ has been shown 100% to be a major benefit. For major changes to a system change the speakers and or add PEQ. PEQ is so popular look at all the PEQ softwares. >>>

EQ Software for Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS/iPadOS and Android.

Any suggestions are welcome. Post suggestions here. I will gather the details and add them. Thanks. :D This will be organized as results come in. @sweetchaos made a guide for PEQ filter data input and operation. For crossover software go here. Windows: AutoEQ four easy steps to make your...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[AaronJ]

I hear you, that's a valid suggestion, however I don't like adding any processing in my audio stream. Furthermore, if I were to add any type of DSP processing, it would have to be via software since none of my equipment has any such capability.

Maybe consider adding something like a MiniDSP Flex running Dirac Live between your preamp and power amp to correct bass response under 300Hz. I can say without hesitation that this is the single most important component in my system. Try reading up on Amir’s review of the MiniDSP Flex to see if it might be for you. I chose the Flex because of its measured ADC-DAC performance to protect my “precious” analog signal.

I don’t know how good the bass is from the Klipschorns, but if you allocate $2000 US total outlay to a MiniDSP Flex, Dirac Live license, UMIK-1, and a pair of $500-600 (each) subs it will completely transform your system.

 

[BrokenOath]

A piece of advice that may (or may not) be relevant:

Put on a bass tone, if you can. If you can't, then put on a track with an almost continuous bass line ... one that repeats over and over again. Then walk around the room, back and forth and up and down.

If the bass deficiency that you mention is related to room modes, there will be an area where the bass is strong and an area where it is weak. Hopefully, you will find out that the weak area (null area) is where you sit, and that the bass in another area is quite satisfactory.

I'm crossing my fingers on this ... get back to me if you can.

Jim

p.s. - If that doesn't pan out, you might consider a unit such as this.

Interesting. I did exactly what you suggested. Here is what I observed:
When I stand completely at the back wall of the room, bass is strong there, solid, I am not sure if this is due to reflection from the wall.
Moving laterally left or right away from my seating position, bass is also better there, but imaging suffers a bit.
So my solution would be to move my seating position further back, and to add some acoustic panels on the back wall to absorb some of the first reflection from the wall, right?

 

[BrokenOath]

Many thanks guys for all the great suggestions.

 

[BrokenOath]

@BrokenOath is your system loud enough right now? It should be I think with the efficiency of those Klipsch speakers. Does it have enough bass and treble? is there specific regions of the frequency response that you think need improvement? (PEQ may be a solution.)

System is extremely loud even with the volume level less than half way. Sound is absolutely breath taking, imaging is perfect, sound-stage is perfect, but I felt like the bass was lacking a bit in my previous seating position. I found that (As per Jim's suggestion) moving my chair further back improves the bass considerably, so that's my solution for now; until the upgrade bug comes knocking again.

 

[Verig]

Welcome to the end game: room acoustics. No matter what amp you buy it won't have an effect on the bass.

 

[Doodski]

System is extremely loud even with the volume level less than half way. Sound is absolutely breath taking, imaging is perfect, sound-stage is perfect, but I felt like the bass was lacking a bit in my previous seating position. I found that (As per Jim's suggestion) moving my chair further back improves the bass considerably, so that's my solution for now; until the upgrade bug comes knocking again.

Cool. I have a soft spot for old school Klipsch and K-horns because when I was a teen the local HD biker and us where friends because he hung at the same outdoor equipment shop. He invited us over to his pad for some cookies, hot choco, tokes and K-horns. I was totally blown away with this song. It was extremely good and the tambourines sang to me. When you need PEQ let me know and I'll suggest something.

EQ Software for Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS/iPadOS and Android.

Any suggestions are welcome. Post suggestions here. I will gather the details and add them. Thanks. :D This will be organized as results come in. @sweetchaos made a guide for PEQ filter data input and operation. For crossover software go here. Windows: AutoEQ four easy steps to make your...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[BrokenOath]

Maybe consider adding something like a MiniDSP Flex running Dirac Live between your preamp and power amp to correct bass response under 300Hz. I can say without hesitation that this is the single most important component in my system. Try reading up on Amir’s review of the MiniDSP Flex to see if it might be for you. I chose the Flex because of its measured ADC-DAC performance to protect my “precious” analog signal.

I don’t know how good the bass is from the Klipschorns, but if you allocate $2000 US total outlay to a MiniDSP Flex, Dirac Live license, UMIK-1, and a pair of $500-600 (each) subs it will completely transform your system.

I had them in another room upstairs, with different equipment, and the bass was outstanding. Then, I decided to move them into a different room in the basement, that's when I started noticing this issue. I am not sure if it was due to the fact that that room was bigger and the floor was plain hardwood, while the basement floor is concrete covered with a thick carpet.
As per Jim's suggestion, moving around the room during music playback, I found a spot at the back of the room where bass is to my liking.

 

[Doodski]

I had them in another room upstairs, with different equipment, and the bass was outstanding. Then, I decided to move them into a different room in the basement, that's when I started noticing this issue. I am not sure if it was due to the fact that that room was bigger and the floor was plain hardwood, while the basement floor is concrete covered with a thick carpet.
As per Jim's suggestion, moving around the room during music playback, I found a spot at the back of the room where bass is to my liking.

Concrete reflects bass. So expect some sound difference between the upper floor and the basement.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Interesting. I did exactly what you suggested. Here is what I observed:
When I stand completely at the back wall of the room, bass is strong there, solid, I am not sure if this is due to reflection from the wall.
Moving laterally left or right away from my seating position, bass is also better there, but imaging suffers a bit.
So my solution would be to move my seating position further back, and to add some acoustic panels on the back wall to absorb some of the first reflection from the wall, right?

From what you're saying, I would suspect that you're sitting in a null, and that all you need to do is adjust your seating position. Because you have Klipschorns, you don't really have the option of changing the position of the speakers.

Here and here are room mode calculators that you might find handy.

Jim

 

[babadono]

Are your KHorns good and sealed into the corners? I mean with pipe insulation? I lived with Ks for over 30 years and could not believe the improvement that made.

 

[babadono]

In "small" rooms which most of us have in our homes you can never have too much bass trapping IMHO. Trying to tame the standing waves is a biotch

 

[babadono]

I don't like adding any processing in my audio stream.

Ok you do know that everything you listen to has been severely F'd with by several "engineers"? just sayin'

 

[BrokenOath]

Are your KHorns good and sealed into the corners? I mean with pipe insulation? I lived with Ks for over 30 years and could not believe the improvement that made.

Yes, they are. These speakers are from the early 2000, the backs already include proper insulation so that they are tightly pressed against the wall.

 

[BrokenOath]

Ok you do know that everything you listen to has been severely F'd with by several "engineers"? just sayin'

You are right, and which is why I am now open to using something like a miniDSP SHD with Dirac Live to compensate for any room contribution to what I am hearing.