Topping HS02 USB isolator early impressions

[Norville]

I couldn't find a lot of information about the Topping HS02 USB isolator online from people actually using one so I thought I'd post some of my early impressions of using it.
I had a pretty bad noise coming out of the USB connections from my PC motherboard. It didn't matter if I had the output actually switched on on my Topping E50 DAC
running through USB or not, there was still noise that seemed to follow the movement of the mouse or when the Graphics card was under load. The only way to make it stop was to remove the usb cable from the motherboard.

I did some looking online and found that a a ground loop isolator would probably do the trick.
So I ordered a Topping HS02, which I found was the most solid option since it could be powered with a separate power supply if the DAC actually needed USB-power which makes it a bit more versatile for other applications. There is a HS01 too, but the 20 dollars more expensive HS02 has the seperate USB-power filtered too.

One could argue that this is a design flaw of the DAC, it should be able to isolate ground loops by itself. I also have a Matrix Element-i which doesn't have any of these problems when connected as a USB-DAC but it is much more expensive on the other hand.

Anyway, got it today and my early impressions are very positive. It's quite small, like a packet of Tic-Tacs and solidly built with metal.
The noise has virtually disappeard when it was plugged in. There still is some very slight noise coming from my active KRK Rokit 6 monitors but it's nowhere
near as bad as it used to be. Seems to be a very solid upgrade for those that have the same problem.

 

[Matias]

The noise has virtually disappeard when it was plugged in. There still is some very slight noise coming from my active KRK Rokit 6 monitors but it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.

Same kind of noise (mouse movement, GPU load) but attenuated, or just constant background hiss?

 

[Norville]

Same kind of noise (mouse movement, GPU load) but attenuated, or just constant background hiss?

No noise following mouse movement or GPU load. I think the speakers themselves have some background noise from the factory and it is with high volume with nothing playing.

 

[Matias]

Yes, then the HS02 solved 100% of the USB noise interference, and now what is left is only the speaker plate amp limitation. The HS02 removed a bottleneck and revealed the next one downstream.

 

[Norville]

Yes, then the HS02 solved 100% of the USB noise interference, and now what is left is only the speaker plate amp limitation. The HS02 removed a bottleneck and revealed the next one downstream.

You are most likely right. I don't mind that noise however, that's really something I can live with compared to how it was.

 

[Loomynarty]

If I had to take a wild guess what IC this isolator is using, it's probably the relatively new ADuM 4165 from Analog Devices. I haven't found any isolator state outright they're using this IC but considering AD are pretty much the only company making USB isolator ICs that actually work, it'd be safe to say it is that.

You can actually buy an evaluation board with said IC installed in it directly from AD to test if you're curious. I'm thinking about ordering one.

 

[mike7877]

I thought I'd add some of my experience with this isolator here for other people who come across this thread. It works great - you have two inputs and two outputs, there's a switch on either side so you can pick which you'd like to use. One excellent feature is this: say your device draws too much power for phone's USB port - connecting your battery bank to the second USB input splits the load between the two inputs. It doesn't take it all from the second port, though - it's a balancing act. To put it simply (and not entirely accurately{re: the numbers}): port 1 and port 2's voltage will appear the same at the HS02's inputs. If your battery bank has a shorter thicker wire, and a more robust power supply circuit on its output than your phone's USB port, most of the power will be coming from your battery bank. Just how it is! If your phone gets overloaded or just chooses to stop providing power over USB, and still communicates data to the DAC (or whatever device), all of the power will be drawn from the battery bank in that situation.

Whenever any noisy USB power supply has caused issue for a device, or I've connected my PC to various things over USB and there've been problems, if those problems were related to an isolation/grounding issue,, the HS02 fixed it completely. Yes, 100% completely. And not only does it isolate, it regenerates power! Power that is very clean.
Also, about latency - it's low... reaaaalllllyy low:
72 microseconds. If you run 1ms (2ms round trip) my RME Babyface does 1ms one way/2ms both, and it won't pop (when PC conditions are right lol), 72us is just 7.2% longer in this [worst] case. Most often people are running 2-3ms doubled to 4-6. HS02 latency is negligible!

Last thing: it can get warm. For example, when running my RME Babyface Pro, which draws about 550mA idle, 650-700 under peak load (driving headphones), the outer case reaches 45C in a 23C room. Not hot enough to burn you, but it's metal so feels hot. Because the output is regenerated and very clean, for the 550mA to be available, about 800mA is drawn, and yep, you guessed it, that 250mA@5V or 1.25W, all gets dissipated as heat. 1.25 watts doesn't seem like a lot, but if you, say, sit on the thing, very quickly, that heat can have nowhere to go, and within 10 minutes it'll be over 70C and a small spot of your leg will slowly be cooking

 

[Rockfella]

This is a good find/info thx for sharing.

 

[carsknivesbeer]

I find the HS01 to work great and is an audible improvement. I am hoping that someone does a comparison to the new JDS Labs Synapse which does the same thing. IF my HS01 dies, that will be its replacement but it has been running along (albeit warm) for 2 years so far though.

Sure wish Mac wouldn't have ditched the Toslink out and this wouldn't be an issue...

 

[mike7877]

 

[totti1965]

I couldn't find a lot of information about the Topping HS02 USB isolator online from people actually using one so I thought I'd post some of my early impressions of using it.
I had a pretty bad noise coming out of the USB connections from my PC motherboard. It didn't matter if I had the output actually switched on on my Topping E50 DAC
running through USB or not, there was still noise that seemed to follow the movement of the mouse or when the Graphics card was under load. The only way to make it stop was to remove the usb cable from the motherboard.

I did some looking online and found that a a ground loop isolator would probably do the trick.
So I ordered a Topping HS02, which I found was the most solid option since it could be powered with a separate power supply if the DAC actually needed USB-power which makes it a bit more versatile for other applications. There is a HS01 too, but the 20 dollars more expensive HS02 has the seperate USB-power filtered too.

One could argue that this is a design flaw of the DAC, it should be able to isolate ground loops by itself. I also have a Matrix Element-i which doesn't have any of these problems when connected as a USB-DAC but it is much more expensive on the other hand.

Anyway, got it today and my early impressions are very positive. It's quite small, like a packet of Tic-Tacs and solidly built with metal.
The noise has virtually disappeard when it was plugged in. There still is some very slight noise coming from my active KRK Rokit 6 monitors but it's nowhere
near as bad as it used to be. Seems to be a very solid upgrade for those that have the same problem.

View attachment 335729

Could it be, that the Topping HS02 USB Isolator is the first USB Filter that makes a difference?
Or can we generalize everything which Amir has said in this video for EVERY USB Filter, no matter which technology it uses?
I am not an expert, just asking because Topping is normaly not known to sell snakeoil to the people.

Is the device worth a check-up by @amirm?

thorsten

 

[DVDdoug]

Could it be, that the Topping HS02 USB Isolator is the first USB Filter that makes a difference?

That would depend on the problem you're trying to solve. If you've got a ground-loop noise or noise from the USB power, isolating the power and ground can help. Usually just isolating the data connections doesn't help because the problems are usually noise getting into the analog electronics (the analog side of the DAC, or the mic preamp in an audio interface where any noise gets amplified by the preamp).

USB power from computers is notoriously noisy and it's not unusual for it to cause issues with USB-powered interfaces or USB mics.

 

[Earfonia]

Unfortunately my Topping HS02 doesn't last. I bought it in March, used it a few times for RME Babyface Pro FS, now it is spoil. No longer working only after few times of usage. Very disappointed .
The USB power still go through the unit and can power up the audio interface, but the audio interface is no longer detected by the computer. I tried with other devices and several USB DACs, same result only power go through but no data. Devices not detected.
Bought from AliExpress, not sure how to claim warranty for it.

On the input, I use the USB B port for data and USB C for power connected to USB charger.

 

[Jnn]

When my bass guitar is connected to the DAW, its making "humm" noise. And when touching to the bass bridge, the sound is gone.. That problem is only when tone is all the way 100%. Will this solve that problem?

 

[totti1965]

Unfortunately my Topping HS02 doesn't last. I bought it in March, used it a few times for RME Babyface Pro FS, now it is spoil. No longer working only after few times of usage. Very disappointed .
The USB power still go through the unit and can power up the audio interface, but the audio interface is no longer detected by the computer. I tried with other devices and several USB DACs, same result only power go through but no data. Devices not detected.
Bought from AliExpress, not sure how to claim warranty for it.

On the input, I use the USB B port for data and USB C for power connected to USB charger.

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Was the line-up the exact same as it was at the time, when everything works well?
Please also try to use USB C for data and just Batterie powered laptop.

For me it seems to be a problem at least similar to like it is with the OTG Capabilities from most lightning to usb-c adapters, if using Apple MacBooks or iPad.

 

[mike7877]

Unfortunately my Topping HS02 doesn't last. I bought it in March, used it a few times for RME Babyface Pro FS, now it is spoil. No longer working only after few times of usage. Very disappointed .
The USB power still go through the unit and can power up the audio interface, but the audio interface is no longer detected by the computer. I tried with other devices and several USB DACs, same result only power go through but no data. Devices not detected.
Bought from AliExpress, not sure how to claim warranty for it.

On the input, I use the USB B port for data and USB C for power connected to USB charger.

View attachment 448147
View attachment 448148
View attachment 448149
View attachment 448158
View attachment 448150

If it's not broken and you do get it working, consider powering your BabyFace Pro/FS with an external power source in the future.

The babyface takes a LOT of power compared to most USB devices. I see you're measuring 0.5A with the babyface not detected, under load it can draw even more (especially especially if you turn on phantom 48V for mics).

I know it's not the power section that's causing you problems, but with my BabyFace Pro running through HS02, the isolator reaches an external temperature of just under 60C. This means that, internally, a capacitor next to a semiconductor could be at around 80C (probably not quite there, but still likely at 65-70), and this will cause problems in the future with a lot of use. Most capacitors are rated for 2000 to 10000 hours at their rated temperature, and even if Topping did 2000 hour 105C (common for semi-high end stuff), with derating to 70C, that's just somewhere between 20k and 30k hours. The caps will still work after that much time, but at near maximum power draw they might not have enough DC smoothing capacity to power the BabyFace Pro/FS.

They do make isolated USB supplies. If you don't want that headache, you can power it with a DC battery. Personally I'd recommend a 12V SLA battery, like you'd find in a UPS. At 12V, the Babyface won't take more than 200-250mA, and UPS battery is rated for 7,000mAh at a 350mA draw, so you'd probably get almost 8,000mAh out of it. It's best to keep SLA full, so when you're not using it you put it on a float charger overnight. If you use the Babyface for 16 hours a day, that's 250mA *16, = 4,000mAh, or 50%. SLA batteries like shallow discharges and not to be left empty, so, if you go this route, you'd get one of those 2A "battery tenders" and a 7Ah (7,000mAh) 12V SLA/AGM battery, and you'd disconnect it from the battery tender in the morning and connect it to the BabyFace, say at 8AM. Whenever you're done, whether that's 4PM or 6AM the next day, you disconnect the BabyFace and reconnect the battery tender. The battery tender is at a float voltage, meaning the battery can stay attached to it indefinitely without damage or overcharging. With a 2A tender, you would get the battery to 75% full by 3 hours, and to 100% after 6-8 hours (6 with a new battery, 8 with a battery half way through its usable life).

Say your average day is an 8 hour day - that's 2,000mAh out of 7,000mAh (7,000 to be conservative).

2000/7000= 29% depth of discharge.

SLA batteries with a 30% depth of discharge are good for 2400 charges.

2400/300 (say you use it 300 days per year) = 8 years.

How much is a 12V SLA battery? You can find a good one for about $30. How much is the battery tender? About $20.

So your BabyFace can have isolated power that's cleaner than anything (because it's from an EXTREMELY high current source capable of over 100 amps) for 8 years at a cost of just $50. Oh, I'm forgetting, you need a wire with a male 5.5mm barrel plug (I think that's what the BabyFace takes) to connect to the battery as well, probably $5 on Amazon. You can either solder it to the battery's terminals, or buy ends that will fit over the battery terminals.

I did this with my BabyFace before I got my HS02!



I'm not sure how much power the HS02 is designed to pass.. I know it's capable of passing something between 1.2A and 1.5A with both connectors fed with power and probably 800-900 with just one. Another solution (if the battery is too much.. lol...) is maybe attaching a small heatsink to it and then a 40mm fan on that heatsink to keep the thing cool. You could literally just use an elastic to hold it all together:
12V 40mm Noctua fan
40mmx x 40mm heatsink
HS02
Elastic

The fan can be powered by the spare USB output on the HS02 (they both always provide power, the switch only directs data)