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Topping G5 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp)

Rate this DAC & HP Amp

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 11 3.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 20 5.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 75 20.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 259 71.0%

  • Total voters
    365

Ken Tajalli

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@Amir does typically mention (in passing) obvious issues/flaws such as sharp corners, heavy for portable use, etc. It's not the focus of the review but I find I could come here without prior experience and confidently buy a product based on his measurements/reviews. I actually did that when I first came upon ASR-it's how I ended up buying the D70 and the TXH 789 which I'm listening to as I type.
I am not arguing with that aspect of it, so could I.
What Amir puts down in the review, has value and is based on facts, and is already available to all.
But the ratings, at best, tells a potential buyer nothing in addition to what Amir has put down, and at worst gives the wrong impression.
Unless members do exercise restraint, and only vote when their vote means something.
 

Ken Tajalli

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As I said, it's member opinion based on the measurements.
You know it, we know it, but not everybody knows it.
As before, the membership rating isn't based on this. The only person who comments briefly on this is Amir... as he has the device physically in his hands. Members who own the same device are welcome to post their experience of the device on the items you refer to and that can add further context to the thread. To the lay reader... I'd imagine the word "science" in the forum title would be quite a giveaway too. It's not Audio Build Quality Review forum.
See my reply above, strangers may buy a device purely on ratings!
And if the performance is the only criteria, then why on earth the Audioquest cable got some ****** ratings? it is a good cable, adds no noise of its own, may even actually shield against RFI and/or EMI, if it gets exposed to them, surely worth $20, for the bulid quality, but at $40 the ratings said, AVOID.
Great... so why are we discussing it again then, especially here in a review thread? ;)
Because in vain (I know that now) I was hoping to persuade members to see the light and not vote either way if they have nothing to add.
It is very relevant in every review thread, that is why I am discussing it.
 

JSmith

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only vote when their vote means something
Every member here has a right to vote whatever way they wish... the poll was put in to provide a broader opinion on the measurements posted and generally (apart from the outlier votes) it conveys this fairly well. I suppose the best for the more uninitiated that you wish to guide in their vote would be for members to post further detail of their opinions on the data provided... which may influence other voters. Oh wait... this already happens. :)

Anyway, it would honestly be for the best to move this continued discussion to the appropriate sub-forum in a new thread... as maybe you haven't seen this post?
Comments in review threads need to be specific to the product being discussed. If your comment is generic in nature, “who needs a DAC since they all sound the same,” it does not belong in the review thread.


JSmith
 

HE-dbtr

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I have two Topping DACs and a headphone amp. All are very good products. Based on Amir's review, I am probably going to pick up a G5. But for multiple reasons I am a bit wary of yet another device with an internal battery that is not easily replaceable (i.e., like most portable products on the market these days).

When the battery goes (assuming that it does not expand), is it likely that I would be able to power the G5 with a charger while listening?
 

Atanasi

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When the battery goes (assuming that it does not expand), is it likely that I would be able to power the G5 with a charger while listening?
It should be expected that retailers offer battery exchange for a reasonable price like it already takes place for phones and laptops. Of course for cheap devices the cost of service would easily be around the price of a new device or more, and it would be uneconomical to provide.
 

RenSong

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Another SKU? Why am I hearing such quality control issues about this brand on other sites? I think this brand has really found it's niche in these forums. I love these reviews but the every week SOTA endorsements seem fishy.
 
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amirm

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Another SKU? Why am I hearing such quality control issues about this brand on other sites? I think this brand has really found it's niche in these forums. I love these reviews but the every week SOTA endorsements seem fishy.
Before we existed, company verified performance of its devices with measurements. And continues to do so now. So why would there be a surprise that they perform so well? There are also other sites showing similar measurements. So if you want to doubt something, this ain't it.
 

RenSong

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Before we existed, company verified performance of its devices with measurements. And continues to do so now. So why would there be a surprise that they perform so well? There are also other sites showing similar measurements. So if you want to doubt something, this ain't it.
I'm not exactly surprised really, I just see a pattern of criticism against some of their products more than others around here. I also feel like Restorer-John's comments shouldn't be brushed aside so easily, they do bring up valid counterpoints. Unless I'm missing the mark completely, which is totally possible.
 

Robbo99999

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I'm not exactly surprised really, I just see a pattern of criticism against some of their products more than others around here. I also feel like Restorer-John's comments shouldn't be brushed aside so easily, they do bring up valid counterpoints. Unless I'm missing the mark completely, which is totally possible.
Ignore the previous thoughts where people (myself included) were posting/postulating that Topping chose a filter that rolled off the treble so that they could gain SINAD - this was proven to be incorrect as the filter doesn't affect the SINAD in this way - it was cleared up by Topping & Amir. So that point doesn't stand......but it's still true that the treble rolls off early unless Topping change the filter - which they might, so that's where we're at.
 

whatever

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Wow, what an over-the-top self-important diatribe! Keep it in perspective - there are people here that think flat from 20Hz-20kHz is an important thing to get right (I'm one of them), especially if we're so hard on DAC & amp reviews in terms of focussing on beyond audible SINAD improvements, then such design & engineering rigour should 100% extend to the expectation of a flat frequency response from 20Hz-20kHz.....and even more so given the fact some humans can hear up that high, so it's arguably more important than rating even higher up the inaudible SINAD scale. I think there is zero problem for people pointing out this weakness of this DAC.....I think they should choose the other filter that's flat to 20kHz.
Filter #1 in the E50 (red line):
index.php
glad to amaze you, but i must say what's truly over-the-top & self-important would be using those words to describe others' comment without even knowing how to read. you're the one who needs help keeping things into perspective - some people, myself included, think that flatness up to 20kHz is more important, while some people, topping included, for some reasons (you may want to read posts such as #245 or #268 in this thread), think that enough attenuation before Nyquist is more important, hence the design choice, and im ok with both views existing, as clearly implied. i was just pointing out the fact that, in this particular case, advocating one over another doesn't objectively make either one the only logical answer nor the corresponding weakness comes with it more acceptable than another.
you can criticize the filter choice, dac chip choice, & conclude that this is a bad product for yourself because of these all you want. that's completely fine by me. what isn't fine is some people go as far as making all kinds of false accusations repeatedly despite multiple clarifications, just to throw dirt on topping's name, thinking it somehow justifies god-knows-what when no need to as them not rating this product highly can be completely justified already just by aforementioned reasons (facts btw) alone & these things they said being untrue justify nothing therefore not only opinions based on these don't have a point, the accusations are totally uncalled for. to those kind of people, i asked them: please kindly shut up.
aside from this, there is of course zero problem for people pointing out the weakness, amir did exactly that on the review!! did i say i have problem with that? lol. the funniest thing is, i don't have problem with that to a point that i didn't even care to really touch on this topic in the post you replies to, as all i care about was to stop those false accusations, because i didn't think anything else is remotely as important, yet you seem to feel offended (by stating facts lol). now that we're touching on this, i must repeat i don't have a problem with how anyone rate this product, not only that, i don't even have problem with you or anyone else disagreeing with amir. in fact, neither me nor the ones who rated this device highly nor amir himself seem to have any problem with any of that. on the other hand, just because amir or some have different criteria, preference, perspective, etc. than the others, people like you feel so offended that you won't stop repeating the same things over and over again unless amir changes his stance. now who are the self-important one, you or me? if you call stating facts & doing what needs to be done over-the-top & self-important, what even are you? as long as you can't tell the difference between us, i don't think it's possible for you to ever improve as a human being. i suggest you learn how to read & use words properly for starters. it helps tremendously. saving time & avoiding unnecessary arguments.
 
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amirm

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while some people, topping included, for some reasons (you may want to read posts such as #245 or #268 in this thread), think that enough attenuation before Nyquist is more important,
They had never selected such a filter before. I think the recent reviews of Chord products with their sharp filter may have motivated them to change thinking that we care about that more than we really do. In other words, they are being responsive to our comments, not something they want to push.
 

audiofun

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They had never selected such a filter before. I think the recent reviews of Chord products with their sharp filter may have motivated them to change thinking that we care about that more than we really do. In other words, they are being responsive to our comments, not something they want to push.
Topping's DSD implementations are broken for all ESS products. Would you please ask them to fix it?
 

MiloTheFirst

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I think this is some impresive piece of engineering, my take regarding the filter choice is that rather than beeing a compromise they couldn't get around, it might have been a pragmatic decision based on real world ussage. as shown by Amir's later meassurement, the device is linear up to 20Khz while operating at 48Khz sample rate. do you know what works at that sample rate? all android phones by default, in fact it won't let you change it unless you install USBAPP or similar apps (it does changes to 41khz when connected to bluetooth though) . further in, for a while now Windows has been set at that sample rate by default in a fresh install. While most of us around here know about the detrements of resampling, I don't expect the average consumer to know about bit-perfect playback or go out of it's way to install USBAPP in their phones or ASIO drivers in their PC, they would just expect and desire a plug and play experience, and currently 99% of devices are going to order this DAC to operate at 48khz sample rate by default
 
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amirm

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Topping's DSD implementations are broken for all ESS products. Would you please ask them to fix it?
Broken? Where do you get that from?
 

MRC01

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I think this is some impresive piece of engineering, my take regarding the filter choice is that rather than beeing a compromise they couldn't get around, it might have been a pragmatic decision based on real world ussage. as shown by Amir's later meassurement, the device is linear up to 20Khz while operating at 48Khz sample rate. do you know what works at that sample rate? all android phones by default, in fact it won't let you change it unless you install USBAPP or similar apps (it does changes to 41khz when connected to bluetooth though) . further in, for a while now Windows has been set at that sample rate by default in a fresh install. While most of us around here know about the detrements of resampling, I don't expect the average consumer to know about bit-perfect playback or go out of it's way to install USBAPP in their phones or ASIO drivers in their PC, they would just expect and desire a plug and play experience, and currently 99% of devices are going to order this DAC to operate at 48khz sample rate by default
The most common sample rate for music is 44.1 kHz - decades of printing millions of CDs before higher sampling rates became practical. 48 kHz is the next most common, especially for DVDs, BluRays and phones.

The reason I find it so surprising that Topping picked that filter is because most of the ESS chips have better filters to choose from. If they wanted full attenuation at 22.05 kHz they could have picked the filter that is down only 1.5 dB @ 20 kHz. And if they wanted flat to 20 khz they could have picked a filter that attenuates by 24.1 kHz, which only allows HF noise above 20 khz. With these options available, their choice doesn't make sense. They also could have made it use one filter for 44.1 kHz, and a different filter at higher sample rates.

That said, the G3 looks like a great device in every other way, clearly they put a lot of thought & engineering into this product, which makes the poor filter choice even that much more mystifying!
 

staticV3

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The reason I find it so surprising that Topping picked that filter is because most of the ESS chips have better filters to choose from. If they wanted full attenuation at 22.05 kHz they could have picked the filter that is down only 1.5 dB @ 20 kHz. And if they wanted flat to 20 khz they could have picked a filter that attenuates by 24.1 kHz, which only allows HF noise above 20 khz. With these options available, their choice doesn't make sense.
The ESS chip used in the G5 (9068AS) has only three built-in filters, which you can see here:
Topping E50 DAC Filter Measurements Balanced USB (1).png
Neither option has full attenuation at 22.05 and down only 1.5 dB @ 20 kHz
 
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MRC01

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The ESS chip used in the G5 (9068AS) only has three built-in filters, which you can see here:
View attachment 225251
Ah, the filter I posted the measured response earlier, which came from the SMSL SU-6 (ESS9038) is not available on that chip. Bummer.
So Topping should use filter #1 for 44.1 kHz and use either 1 or 3 for higher rates.
 

audiofun

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Broken? Where do you get that from?
DSD128, 256, 512 have high noise floor and reduce the SNR to only ~100dB.
Definitely below the claimed >120dB SNR.
DSD64 also has similar issue but not as bad as 128 and 256.
I tested a few Topping ESS products I have and found archimago's result to be the case for all of them.
their competitor's ESS implementation does not have such issue.

this is causing 20db worse SNR (or DR). definitely broken in my book.

If this could be fixed by firmware it would be great.
 
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