Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[Snoopy]

ppl just dyin to get one lol

Wondering if there will be a D90 velvet or a DX7+ velvet. But the D70V seems like a Great option at the moment.

 

[BR52]

Wondering if there will be a D90 velvet or a DX7+ velvet. But the D70V seems like a Great option at the moment.

What is great on the V(elvet) we see a big hump in all new AKM implementations.

 

[Snoopy]

What is great on the V(elvet) we see a big hump in all new AKM implementations.

As if that "big" hump is audible

 

[chillwig]

not sure this is the right place to post this but it's the right device.

Trying Roon on a Windows box with the E70 connected via USB, and Roon sees the E70 as both WASAPI and ASIO options.

But only the ASIO option enables native DSD. The WASAPI option only offers PCM conversions. Is that expected behavior?

 

[wacomme]

Is there any advantage to spending $150 for the E70 over the SMSL DO100? My DO100 died and I’m wondering if the E70 has any real advantages over the SMSL? It would match my L70, but I don’t care about that aesthetic piece.

 

[Veri]

Is there any advantage to spending $150 for the E70 over the SMSL DO100? My DO100 died and I’m wondering if the E70 has any real advantages over the SMSL? It would match my L70, but I don’t care about that aesthetic piece.

If you really don't care about the aesthetics then no, there are plenty of good performers that are a bit cheaper

 

[staticV3]

But only the ASIO option enables native DSD. The WASAPI option only offers PCM conversions. Is that expected behavior?

Yes. Native DSD isn't possible via WASAPI. Only DoP.
For native DSD, ASIO is required.

 

[777]

Hi, measurement wise, the ESS seems a little better compared to the AKM. I have the ESS E70, I am really happy with it. Would not spend the 100 bucks more, see no reason.

Have you ever opened it before? How does the I/V converter under the tin box look like?

 

[Bel Canto]

Is there any advantage to spending $150 for the E70 over the SMSL DO100? My DO100 died and I’m wondering if the E70 has any real advantages over the SMSL? It would match my L70, but I don’t care about that aesthetic piece.

The DO 100 is a relatively new DAC, how did it die?

 

[wacomme]

The DO 100 is a relatively new DAC, how did it die?

I have no idea. I returned home after 13 days in the hospital for two lumbar spine fusions, and while the controls all appear to work and function properly, I’m getting no sound through the dac. I’ve isolated the problem to the dac. Replacing the dac with a Qudelix everything works.

 

[BR52]

Have you ever opened it before? How does the I/V converter under the tin box look like?

No, I have it now for a few days and would not violate the European warranty regulations (2 years!) but I am also curious to see how Topping found the solution for the IMD hump. My speculation is described here.
From the thread:

ESS ES9039PRO and ES9027PRO announced​

9039PRO and 9027PRO also have revised "recommended output stages" in their datasheets (https://www.esstech.com/products-overview/digital-to-analog-converters/sabre-audiophile-dacs/) which use a back-to-back de-glitch capacitor plus no "angst" resistor for the I/V capacitor (sounds familiar, doesn't it ;-). They also use a common-mode control loop with an extra opamp to force the output voltages to be exactly 0V rather than using a bias voltage directly.
The 9027PRO circuit shown in the datasheet looks, let's say, somewhat special... probably a drawing error...

Yesterday it was a little late.... Today I need a little help to understand the ESS schematic.
Mostly we can see here some tweaks of the I/V stage, from KSTR already shown here February 2022.
The offset problem is here solved with an active stage. So far, so good. Now I was expecting a slow (integrating)
offset compensation. Here we can see something very fast acting (51 pF!!) integrating (compensating) capacitor and a fast OP -amp. Some Ideas?

​

 

[VintageFlanker]

Next to this issue mentioned here, I updated the E70 to firmware 1.04. The latter allows selecting DPLL bandwidth from 5 (default) to 15. I fixed my skipping issue, while playing thought LG OLEDC2's optical out, by using the 11 setting.

Here is the measured Jitter performance between setting 5, 9, 11 & 15:

Exemplarily clean.

...Starts to be quite ugly, but sidebands are still 120dB below the fundamental.

Completely messed-up. Avoid.

For now, when Coax is good, it usually means Toslink will be just as good

Usually. Not always, as you know.

For the record:

Againt USB:

 

[BR52]

Thank you for the measurement! Great to see what's happen if you switch between the possibilitys.
In my case, it was no problem to sync my Sony TV with 5.

 

[KSTR]

The offset problem is here solved with an active stage. So far, so good. Now I was expecting a slow (integrating)
offset compensation. Here we can see something very fast acting (51 pF!!) integrating (compensating) capacitor and a fast OP -amp. Some Ideas?

This is not your typical LF/DC servo loop. Rather, this is a non-inverting composite fast full-frequency amp (and the 51pF is the RF-compensation for that composite) whose input signal is zero (GND on the +IN pin) and therefore the sum of the I/V output signals must be zero as well (within precision set by the mixing resistors) which is what we want -- make the signal symmetric with regard to output GND, at all times, dynamically. The actual I/V-stages are the closed loop slave amplifiers in that composite, running in parallel

 

[BR52]

This is not your typical LF/DC servo loop. Rather, this is a non-inverting composite fast full-frequency amp (and the 51pF is the RF-compensation for that composite) whose input signal is zero (GND on the +IN pin) and therefore the sum of the I/V output signals must be zero as well (within precision set by the mixing resistors) which is what we want -- make the signal symmetric with regard to output GND, at all times, dynamically. The actual I/V-stages are the closed loop slave amplifiers in that composite, running in parallel

If I see the tiny IV box Topping has now, they must have designed a highly integrated solution. Or could find a more effective (fewer components, cost-effective) solution. The massive paralleling OP -Amp I/V stages to reduce noise is not always without penalties. Two 8 Chanel DAC for stereo measure, sometimes not better than one for the job.

 

[BR52]

This is not your typical LF/DC servo loop. Rather, this is a non-inverting composite fast full-frequency amp (and the 51pF is the RF-compensation for that composite) whose input signal is zero (GND on the +IN pin) and therefore the sum of the I/V output signals must be zero as well (within precision set by the mixing resistors) which is what we want -- make the signal symmetric with regard to output GND, at all times, dynamically. The actual I/V-stages are the closed loop slave amplifiers in that composite, running in parallel

Thanks to your explanation some time ago, I could understand the circuit. Until now, we see specially in SMSL-Circuits trim pots only for eliminating the DC- offset. To eliminate the common mode errors over the full frequency range without trimming makes it even better.

 

[martin900]

Do we have measurements of the AKM version? I assume this one uses the old 9028PRO's?
I'm a bit lost in their naming scheme, is the E70 "Velvet" with AKM a newer model or have they been launched alongside each other?

 

[staticV3]

Do we have measurements of the AKM version?

Measurements of the E70 and E70V

I assume this one uses the old 9028PRO's?

Yeah probably

I'm a bit lost in their naming scheme, is the E70 "Velvet" with AKM a newer model or have they been launched alongside each other?

They were launched almost simultaneously. E70 first, then E70V like one or two weeks later.
It's called "Velvet" because of AKM's "Velvet sound" slogan.
"Velvet" indicates that an AKM chip is used.

 

[Veri]

Do we have measurements of the AKM version? I assume this one uses the old 9028PRO's?
I'm a bit lost in their naming scheme, is the E70 "Velvet" with AKM a newer model or have they been launched alongside each other?

Velvet is AKM's marketing to make consumers think products powered with their chips/solutions will sound more velvety/"analogue". No science to it. But people are gullible so I'm sure it works out for them..

 

[Gradius]

VERY expensive ($100 more):

TOPPING E70V AK4191+AK4499EX Digital to Analog Convertor (DAC)

Spec: PCM USB IN:44.1kHz-768kHz/16bit-32bit COAX/OPT IN:44.1kHz-192kHz/16bit-24bit BT IN:AAC/SBC/APTX/APTX LL/APTX HD/APTX-Adaptive/LDAC DSD(Native) USB IN:DSD64-DSD512 COAX/OPT IN:can not support BT IN:can not support DSD(DoP) DSD64-DSD256 COAX/OPT IN:can not support BT IN:can not support E70 ...

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