Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[morillon]

I'm all for real world testing SINAD,in a typical day and a typical set-up listening session.
I really am,I try hard to think the worst ways to test that,placement as is,long cables mixed,lower levels,complex signals,no isolation,etc).
And yes,it gets worst,really worst sometimes.
But that's not a reason to dismiss everything and search in the realm of impossible.
(english is not my native language too,so understanding is limited both ways).

I didn't say that..
just 3 chords of a fast piano pedal down is already in frequency with a complexity that has no connection with our methodologies...which have the merit of existing and certainly allow us to progress...
i try to not forget


;-)

 

[hoverdonkey]

Why do all the Chinese DACs use the same remote? I think it is time we all jump up and down at the same time and demand discrete remote IR codes and remote buttons so that when changing inputs from a distance (and not being able to read the small fonts in the display) we don't have to press the up/down buttons with a trial and error approach.

Well, here's one more guy jumping up and down with you.

I am hoping for a (cheap recommended) DAC with discrete input selection but for a different reason: so I can integrate it in my Logitech Harmony controlled setup.

 

[voodooless]

Clearly, somebody needs to read up on Sampling Theorem 101...

;-)

;-) - - =

 

[Sokel]

so I can integrate it in my Logitech Harmony controlled setup.

If you succeed finding one please give me a note,can't live without my Harmony.

 

[morillon]

Clearly, somebody needs to read up on Sampling Theorem 101...

;-) - - =

and in analog?
sinad imd multitones...
;-)
but study here not fft of very very complex signals of acoustic music..
just that my modest point
1 frenquency..2 or 32...


;-)

 

[MAB]

and in analog?
sinad imd multitones...
;-)
but study here not fft of very very complex signals of acoustic music..
just that my modest point
1 frenquency..2 or 32...


;-)

OK.
Can you demonstrate?

 

[morillon]

demonstrate what?
the complexity of just a symphony orchestra chord in relation to an ap32 or a 1khz?
is this a joke?
I'm not trying to prove anything...
just rappel (and for myself)

so the 1k at sinad nice while just compressed file ..?
end for good
;-)

 

[MAB]

demonstrate what?
the complexity of just a symphony orchestra chord in relation to an ap32 or a 1khz?
is this a joke?
I'm not trying to prove anything...
just rappel


so the 1k at sinad nice while just compressed file ..?
end for good
;-)

I knew you weren't. You were casting doubt on the validity of a test, by saying that it can't be representative of the whole. Or that there are special circumstances that make the so-called simple test invalid on an ensemble. Of course, what you postulate can't be proven, by design, and you know it. That's the joke. I am actually serious.

 

[morillon]

these tests are very valid...

just rather than distant, to make them usable observable studyable from the reality of what we are listening to..
that's all...
;-)
(I have the impression that this so basic thing ended up being forgotten to read this forum for several months..
that should make a little more humble...
human sufficiency, of those who know, is also a "cognitive bias"
hehe
;-)
)

 

[MAB]

these tests are very valid...

just rather than distant, to make them usable observable studyable from the reality of what we are listening to..
that's all...
;-)
(I have the impression that this so basic thing ended up being forgotten to read this forum for several months..
that should make jn a little more humble...
human sufficiency, of those who know, is also a "cognitive bias"
hehe
;-)
)

I get your point, you keep repeating the same aspersion.

 

[morillon]

a worried about not being understood while basic.. with in addition this story of not good written expression... then translated automatically
sorry
;-)

 

[MAB]

a worried about not being understood while basic.. with in addition this story of not good written expression... then translated automatically
sorry
;-)

I appreciate that. I still think I understand your point.

 

[Talisman]

I use bluetooth in the kitchen with a Bose mini. Its a convenient way to listen with subquality gear. Its ok for non critical listening while doing other things like cooking.

However , bluetooth doesnt belong in a really good listening environment with good listening gear, and active listening .

Its as bad as Spotify, and if you are combining spotify with bluetooth you get a VERY bad sound result .

I wish Amirm could do a test with combining 256 kBit mp3 with bluetooth and then show the real SINAD of that.

While I agree with you in general principle, it really depends a lot on how you use your rig.
If you use it in a separate room, sit in the ideal listening spot, use only the highest quality sources and listen carefully and critically to every single track, then yes, there is no point in using bluetooth.
But many use their system in everyday life, in the living room, listening to TV from speakers, watching a youtube video with decent audio, playing background music while chatting or having dinner, for all these things it is infinitely more Convenient to plug in bluetooth and manage everything from your phone.
Better to have one more choice and connection than one less.
Apart from that, frankly, I personally have serious doubts about being able to blindly distinguish an ldac 990 transmission from a bit perfect stream. And I am convinced that very few would succeed, but I could be wrong about this.

 

[RosalieTheDog]

But many use their system in everyday life, in the living room, listening to TV from speakers, watching a youtube video with decent audio, playing background music while chatting or having dinner, for all these things it is infinitely more Convenient to plug in bluetooth and manage everything from your phone.

Quite apart from sound quality issues, I question the "convenience" of bluetooth.

"Plug in" Bluetooth? Precisely how is bluetooth from TV to speakers more convenient than, say, an optical cable to a DAC to your (amplifier or powered) speakers?
I have only bad experiences with bluetooth using my phone as a source. It gets confused if you try to pair with a different device (from headphone to speaker for example), its connection drops when the sleeve of your phone is not the right material or if you move around the house, the battery of your phone drains quickly, ...

 

[Phippers]

So did they finally put out an hassle-free version of the D30 Pro?

You beat me to it!

Does anyone know whether the E70 exhibits the same SPIDF / TOSLINK connectivity issues as the D30Pro and E30, or are they resolved in the E70?

Has anyone had the opportunity to test this yet?

 

[Talisman]

I have only bad experiences with bluetooth using my phone as a source. It gets confused if you try to pair with a different device (from headphone to speaker for example), its connection drops when the sleeve of your phone is not the right material or if you move around the house, the battery of your phone drains quickly, ...

Do you really have all these problems? perhaps trivially they are problems with your device, I have never had these problems, I manage connections very well from my smartphone and if I stay within the radius of my living room I never lose the connection once.
I find the apps that manage streamers much more problematic, less intuitive and generally with more complications, so I only do it when I absolutely want to have the highest quality, otherwise I go bluetooth (and I don't feel any real qualitative differences)

"Plug in" Bluetooth? Precisely how is bluetooth from TV to speakers more convenient than, say, an optical cable to a DAC to your (amplifier or powered) speakers?

Trivially, because using the optical output to the dac I necessarily have to adjust the volume from the amplifier, but if I connect it via bluetooth I can manage the volume from the TV remote control. Much more comfortable.

 

[Tangband]

Nice to see a lot of BT/LDAC performance discussion in a DAC here on this thread. Hope this is the start to remind Amir that more than a few folks wants to see some BT measurement in DAC/AMPs.
For the BT/LDAC hater. Just FYI can quote 3 measurements here just for kicks and you can decide what it is.
By Wolf: DX7Pro+ BT -> 115 SINAD
View attachment 243905

By Wolf: Topping G5 BT -> 114 SINAD
View attachment 243906

By member Rja400 here: D90LE LDAC BT -> 111 SINAD
View attachment 243908

Also want to mention that Topping is the only outfit that sometimes mention the BT signal will be routed to the main DAC chip for decoding. (eg. DX7Pro+/DX5/DX3Pro+ I can only recall these 3 mentioned). I listen a lot thru LDAC 96khz from my Galaxy S9 to DX3Pro+ and sound quality is excellent. FWIW.
Have fun everyone. Do not count BT/LDAC off yet ... the day of 120 SINAD BT is not too far hopefully

Thanks.
This tests are missleading because real music is not a single 1 kHz test tone , it contains energy between 20 -20000 Hz at the same time with a lot of variations in the time domain.

The ” intelligent” coding used in ldac, bluetooth and mp3 uses the ears ”masking” effect - this measures VERY bad and has nothing to do with the original uncompressed music-file.

This ”intelligent” coding is also more than twice as worse if bluetooth and mp3 are connected in cascade.
I.e if its used at the same time.

So …. -1 -1 = -3

This is why lossy sound material and transmission never shall be used in serious hifi. There is no technical reason for it at 2022.

 

[headwhacker]

is it just me getting tired of reading reviews of a new DAC and/or amp which measures slightly better than the previous model? But essentially the same? No new relevant feature that will pique my interest?

Disclosure: last DAC/amp combo I bought is the E50/L50 stack. No matter how better measurement-wise the products that came out after it, be it from topping or other brands completely just do not interest me.

Just a suggestion, (or more like my curiosity) why not look into adding streaming or wireless? Or venture into products like DAPs which I believe no one has done anything that measures as good as the the amps/dacs here.

 

[Talisman]

---

Id be very interested for you to do the test here and show the results of which bitrate of mp3 you can distinguish from lossless. You might be surprised. I know I was.

ABX Lossless vs Lame MP3 test list

A set of browser-based ABX tests to compare Lame MP3 encoded and lossless music samples

abx.digitalfeed.net

This test is really humiliating for me, I can only establish 96kbs with certainty using mondrop chu earphones connected to the phone. But even so I didn't find 100% of the samples.

 

[Killingbeans]

This is why lossy sound material and transmission never shall be used in serious hifi. There is no technical reason for it at 2022.

If "serious hi-fi" demands shooting sparrows with artilleri, just because the logistics can handle the shells, I'd rather stick to "joke hi-fi" and be happy