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Topping D90 and RME ADI-2 FS

dfuller

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NAMM 2021 (starting Jan 18)
Well... Not this time. NAMM's off.

But, the ADI-2 Pro has been updated twice since its initial release. First with a newer, much lower jitter clock (the FS revision) and then later with a remote and the AK4493 replacing the AK4490 (the FS R Black Edition).
 

jlm70

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Yeah, I know. Yet it's always a bit less easy to market a device where the core DAC is a couple of gens behind.
Nonetheless... I love these RME features and I won't look elsewhere for my next DAC.
 

jlm70

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Ps: the RME has been elected to become my... current DAC :)
Ordered and waiting for next week ;)
 

Phrangko

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Indeed. Lets just enjoy our units immensely; come to think of it, I don't think that I've discovered any faults at all with the RME !!! When I first unboxed it, the small screen scared me a bit as I thought it might be hard to read. But the colors and contrast of the screen are so superb that it is not hard to read. Yes, the manual explains WHY they did things the way they did. Superb headphone amp also, as confirmed by Amirm measurements. I don't have any IEMs, but for those who do, it has a dedicated IEM output designed specifically for IEMs. And who the hell wants Bluetooth, anyway? I don't think the RME ADI-2 FS is beatable anywhere near its price point, and perhaps not at any price point. Feels great to the touch -- both touching the unit and the knobs, it seems to exude its fine German engineering and build quality. Knobs (or rotary encoders as the manual calls them) turn with the perfect amount of response. This DAC is indeed, The Real McCoy, The Cat's Meow !!!
What device do you input through the RME? If mine arrives I'll connect the Node 2i and it has BT btw. How is it as a preamp? In the D90 the preamp is not at par with the DAC.
 

Phrangko

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Bluetooth + Performance. The D90 takes it.

Everything else. The RME takes it

The DSP and options with the RME make everything else look like stone-age tools. Also the RME has an AMP section we aren't sure how good it is in reality (for the DAC and headphone section to measure equally, it means the amp portion is superior and is being bottlenecked by the DAC chip essentially).

The moment RME releases a 4499 RME ADI-3 for example, is when nearly all DACs become obsolete essentially. Adding bluetooth, a 4pin XLR-out, and perhaps expanding the DSP processing power (allowing something like 10 PEQ bands for example), and streaming (crosses fingers), it'll be game over.

People hoping for mic input though for room correction are a bit too hopeful I would imagine, that might come with the ADI-3 Pro or something that has ADC capability, I doubt they'll put that in their DAC line. But you never know, a build around the 4499 will allow them to enter in an entire new price bracket (I don't forsee the devices being any less than $2000). People should remember the 4490 version that exists today was beating devices with 4493 and 4497 DACs in performance metrics. A 4499 is just going to be something real special I imagine once they get their hands on it.
The RME adi 2 has room correction.
 

VintageFlanker

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Sort of. That's according to Seltzertronics on YT. Starting from 4:20.
Once again: It does not. I don't need to check this youtuber (who, by the way, says the ADI-2 sounds dry and clinical) to know about my daily gears (owned two) I use for two years now.;)
5 bands EQ is not room correction.
If you wanna do something close, you will have to manually measure your room through REW and then try to apply some correction playing with the EQ, which I did several times. That's barely any Room correction integrated feature @Tks is talking about.;)
 

ririt

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Once again: It does not. I don't need to check this youtuber (who, by the way, says the ADI-2 sounds dry and clinical) to know about my daily gears (owned two) I use for two years now.;)
5 bands EQ is not room correction.
If you wanna do something close, you will have to manually measure your room through REW and then try to apply some correction playing with the EQ, which I did several times. That's barely any Room correction integrated feature @Tks is talking about.;)
Vintage flanker, to measure your room through Rew using the RME ADI-2 FS, how do you proceed? By connecting your computer to the USB input of the RME? Thanks for your feedback
 
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AudioStudies

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What device do you input through the RME? If mine arrives I'll connect the Node 2i and it has BT btw. How is it as a preamp? In the D90 the preamp is not at par with the DAC.
When I first got the RME, I fed it a digital signal from my Cambridge 851N, but I wasn't streaming, I was playing wav files from thumb drives. It performed well in that regard (preamp), but I have since moved the RME near my computer and feeding it from the computer USB and using it with my headphones (not as a preamp). I haven't noticed any problems with the D90, but you could be right.
 

Phrangko

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I now have the RME Adi-2 FS with the Node 2i attached to it. How does the setup differ from the stand alone? Big! Like 30% sound wise. As preamp? Even bigger! Like 40% improvement. To tell you the truth from what I'm hearing I didn't know my 702S2 and my Adcom 555se can sing this good. Never heard them play this awesome.
 

dougi

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Vintage flanker, to measure your room through Rew using the RME ADI-2 FS, how do you proceed? By connecting your computer to the USB input of the RME? Thanks for your feedback

Yep that is what I do.
 

dmilller

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Probably a dumb question, but RME does the EQ in digital? For me the ideal DAC would allow manual EQ at fine granularity (more than 5 bands). I don't want or need automatic room correction.

Also, question on the 5 band. Can the the frequencies be set by the user?
 

Matias

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Probably a dumb question, but RME does the EQ in digital? For me the ideal DAC would allow manual EQ at fine granularity (more than 5 bands). I don't want or need automatic room correction.

Also, question on the 5 band. Can the the frequencies be set by the user?
Welcome to ASR. Yes, EQ is done digitally. Maximum of 5 bands per hardware processing limitations. If you want more you can use a PC to do it.

Here is how it looks.

 

dmilller

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Welcome to ASR. Yes, EQ is done digitally. Maximum of 5 bands per hardware processing limitations. If you want more you can use a PC to do it.

Here is how it looks.


Very Cool. Why isn't that a major feature for most buyers of better DACs? 99% of expensive equipment is in less than perfect rooms. Most people over age 40 have some high frequency hearing loss. Seems to me that EQing in digital should be a standard feature.

I seem to be talking myself into spending $1200
 

Zensō

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You can also use the bass and treble shelves, so in effect you have 5+2 bands, though the bass and treble shelves aren’t saved along with the 5 in your presets. If you’re a headphone user, Oratory1990 has some 5+2 curves specifically designed to be used with the ADI-2.
 

Tks

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Very Cool. Why isn't that a major feature for most buyers of better DACs? 99% of expensive equipment is in less than perfect rooms. Most people over age 40 have some high frequency hearing loss. Seems to me that EQing in digital should be a standard feature.

I seem to be talking myself into spending $1200

Irrational people plague this community. You have a sizable portion that think ANY processing of a signal is too much. The other half is simply people that don't know, or don't care. Aside from the recent advent of the performance wars in new audio gear, there is virtually zero expansion into feature-set. The latest stride in this direction has been of course the RME you know of now. And more recently, SMSL doing something simple like including a screen and stepped attenuator for volume control to be also used with a remote if you would like on an analogue-only amp, which is a nice break from the same old, plain old. Aside from that, I am not seeing ANYONE remotely even hinting at attempting to compete on the level with RME. Some companies do a small thing here or there, but for the most part, you either have something useful like streamer all-in-ones that don't get attention, or have some glaring flaws elsewhere. But as stated, something like FPGA use for something like a DSP box in the manner the RME DAC is, is so far from the minds of many device makers it seems (I don't blame them, considering you need a whole team from UI/UX specialists, software designers, hardware specialists etc...). I've never seen something like this in any industry, where somehow many companies can be successful, even as others offer massive value per dollar compared to the other.

And then there are the boutique companies that never change... (boutique same-old device makers resting on their laurels puzzle me, I'm surprised they can weather this storm just staying the same with the same old, bad performing gear). I guess branding is that powerful.

But when you take a look at how mainstream companies do audio (like Samsung, Apple, or the multitude of other companies making things like gamer headphones or whatnot), their entire focus is feature-set. They understand that audibility for 99% of people is virtually a non-issue that has been solved ages ago. Like imagine having a wireless headphone with distortion as good as something like a DAC, so something like a maximum of -120db of harmonics vs a fundamental. What use is that, if the headphone has a slight frequency focus on treble that makes is hard to listen to, when something like a small chip to quell that fault isn't included? Or imagine having a $100 DAC that just works as a DAC or a $105 DAC with a remote, and a single-button press to turn on something like crossfeed so you don't fatigue yourself to death listening to stereo recordings on IEM's or headphones for hours.

Now I'm no hardware expert, nor audio software expert. But it's just puzzling to see RME reign supreme in this respect with no competition in sight at all. It sort of reminds me of Benchmark, who with their power-amp (the ABH2), virtually rules in almost every respect for literally a half decade now. Though at least this specific example may not be the case (John Yang, fellow amp designer for Topping that frequents us here thankfully) seems to have up his sleeve a proper contender to dethrone the Benchmark. Fingers crossed for that.

Also, if you do pull the trigger on the RME, the manual specifically addresses something you said in you post (the RME has a section on channel volume-balance control, and per channel EQ, and their justification for that was for the inherent natural hearing ability discrepancy many folks have of one ear compared to their other, especially as we age and things perhaps start getting worse in one ear vs the other). It's that sort of forethought and consideration where a consumer sees, and can rest easy knowing all their other claims like short-protection, and things of that technical nature, should be done properly. Compare that to a company that's talking to you about how you should also get their cable to their power amp so that the highs sound slightly cleaner... It's just a stark contrast that's almost difficult to imagine that both are in the same industry competing supposedly.
 

Matias

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RME has been dealing with firmware, software and drivers since the beginning, along with audio hardware. They have 20 years of expertise. This is not something a hardware manufacturer builds overnight. Not only there is hiring or training for the necessary skill set, but also bugs to fix, improving the fine details, and finally keeping the costs controlled and the company profitable. This is a steep learning curve for others to copy. All while having competitive high end hardware to go with the software too.

Again, congrats RME.
 

Zensō

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RME has been dealing with firmware, software and drivers since the beginning, along with audio hardware. They have 20 years of expertise. This is not something a hardware manufacturer builds overnight. Not only there is hiring or training for the necessary skill set, but also bugs to fix, improving the fine details, and finally keeping the costs controlled and the company profitable. This is a steep learning curve for others to copy. All while having competitive high end hardware to go with the software too.

Again, congrats RME.

Agreed. Very few of the companies that cater to audiophiles have the skills and resources to compete with a company like RME.

I mostly buy pro gear anymore. There’s just way too much fantasy and BS in audiophilia...
 
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AudioStudies

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I guess branding is that powerful.
Indeed. Too bad often for the wrong reasons. You sure have a way of hitting the nail on the head when you sum up these issues.
 
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AudioStudies

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RME does things so exceptionally well that it is hard to find fault. The only thing I would have like to have seen would be XLR balanced on the units designed for home use.
 
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