Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)

[Cc-Mode]

I mean we all focus on the price.
But what if we check the upgrade from E30?
Is it possible that the hardware improvement is so serious which can justify the price?

 

[Quomz]

I mean we all focus on the price.
But what if we check the upgrade from E30?
Is it possible that the hardware improvement is so serious which can justify the price?

You basically want to compare the bill of material costs of E30 and D30pro?

 

[Cc-Mode]

Not just the bill. My concern is about the quality as an upgrade:
- 4 x CS43198 DAC CHIPS
- 8 independent LDOs for power supply
- Altera PLC for clock
- XLR output
- Volume control
- Good performance for the three inputs

I don't have the technical background to judge but it seems that a lot of effort has been put into pushing towards a more complete version

 

[raif71]

Definitely did confuse me, but lets see what we got here.



Yeah, I'm not sure how this is informative.



Dolby puts out nonsense all the time, I don't see how it's even possible to have "height" in stereo, that simply doesn't make any sense even speaking from principal (I told you, run the test yourself in reality, have someone play something behind your back, with eyes closed, and see if you can tell if the sound is higher or lower than your head, keeping the sound source centered).



But that doesn't answer the question? I specifically controlled for aspects like imaging and how it's distinct from soundstage according to your first formulation on what you took soundstage to be (which I hope you address).



I don't take "stereo width" to be a primary component of soundstage, otherwise mono recordings coming from speakers for example would be as flat as you imagine they would be on headphones, but yet, that's simply not the case in reality, otherwise all mono recordings would be virtually the same soundstage.

The reason stereo width isn't a primary component, because it only deals with lateral distance (how far apart the channels are between left and right ear presentation), and not like Z axis depth (distance to and from the listener), and also because stereo width is already an established term, so it doesn't make sense to be synonymous with soundstage. And also because stereo width falls under a post-processing effect that can be increased or decreased in software.

I say soundstage is a psychological phenomena mainly. And any basis in reality, is due to recording type/setting, post-processing/DSP, and pinna activation levels.

Okay, aside from the height aspect, and the blurring of lines you're presenting between "soundstage" and "imaging" and "stereo width" but somehow not making comment on "distance" (like the church vs booth where reflections are widely different).

I just need to know, what portions of my summation of soundstage do you disagree with? Or more importantly, what the argument is against my summation? The reason I say "headphones stereo presentation" isn't soundstage, simply because I can throw a mono recording at you, and you would have to then say all mono recordings have identical soundstage. And when you say "EQ", that's simply an agreement with what I said about post processing which envelops EQ already.

I'm sure some of you have heard of 8d audio? Here is one...

 

[AnalogSteph]

The sample tested by @WolfX-700 made it to a dynamic range of 132.6 dB(A), which I think is the highest out of any DAC he's measured.
https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/measurements-of-topping-d30pro-dac/
I wouldn't be giving away a DAC at this performance level either.

 

[Fish17]

Beware, 2020 was the first time I witnessed an increase in prices for many electronics.

Yeah I just jumped on the X16, in my opinion the D30Pro is a little overpriced I would have jumped all over it at $300 - $350 but the X16 performs better or equally, has Bluetooth, MQA support and more inputs (AES and I2S).

Also I know it plays nice with MQA unfolding with the Node 2i coaxial or optical outputs which is the only way to bypass the Node 2i’s DAC. Although the Node 2i has to do the first unfolding.

 

[kiyu]

Yeah I just jumped on the X16, in my opinion the D30Pro is a little overpriced I would have jumped all over it at $300 - $350 but the X16 performs better or equally, has Bluetooth, MQA support and more inputs (AES and I2S).

same here, for that amount I will add a bit more and go with the Gustard x16 better in most (or all ) aspects.

 

[Slayer]

Welcome to the forum!

They are valid if they are of concern to you... The question is whether your concern is warranted.

I would not be concerned. There is a lot of nonsense about SMPS's being evil, but assuming a decent design, this is not an issue.

If you look a little further down in the review from where that graph is, you'll see Amir explains that this has to do with noise shaping, as opposed to being distortion. In other words, also not to be concerned about

So, it's a fantastic device.

My question is whether there is anything with your current DAC that makes you unhappy (obvious noise, weird behavior)? The reality is that even an old poorly measuring (by modern standards) DAC, like the ones in my old Krell or Lexicon processors are going to be indistinguishable under an actual, controlled subjective test with a new one. I have quite a few, from old to newer, and I couldn't possibly tell them apart if I couldn't peek.

Have you looked into room correction with a Umik-1 and the software REW? Speakers and the room are usually fairly readily tuned for big differences. You know... The real kind.

What is the rest of your setup like?

Hey woody, thanks for the welcome and your input.

I will try and get to the point and as short as possible, if that's possible. Looking to replace the Dac duties in Parasound Halo P5 preamp.
This is a secondary 2,1 system, but i actually use quite a lot. Gear ( Parasound P5, Anthem amplifier, Hp 1k laptop, Onkyo Cd player, Hd radio tuner, 2 Monolith subs, 1ev sub, 2 way main spk, direct tv, 4k firestick, 4k tv, etc)

The Dac in the P5 is honestly fine when it comes to using the usb connection for computer audio duties. However when using coaxial or optical, it is just plain hard on the old ears. In the past i have spoken with other P5 owners and they seem to concur with my assessment. Simply put, I can listen to audio from the USB (computer) all day long and enjoy it very much, not fatiguing in the slightest. However when it comes to coaxial or optical, 30 minutes and you've got a splitting headache. (harsh, grainy, brittle, choppy, you get the idea, and will sometimes make strange clicks and pops, somethings just isn't right) Room correction software is not going to solve these weird issues going on. All my friends agree, the coaxial and optical are just sh....

So i am going to get another Dac, just looking for a reasonably priced product, that measures well. And i tend overthink things sometimes and can be a little anal looking for perfection (lol). I am all about the measurements first when it comes to audio. However when it comes down to does one sound different than the other, to be honest, I'm still on the fence with that one. I know they should Not sound different, but sometimes i'm not so sure. On a side note, i can't find it right now, but i'm pretty sure in the past i had seen where someone had measured the P5's internal Dac and it confirmed what i was hearing.

One last thing for all wondering, just got an email from Shenzhen about the D30pro, quote-

D30 Pro comes with 4 x CS43198, THD+N is as low as 0.00009%. Cirus Logic sound style, try experiencing a slightly different feeling from ESS and AKM. A30 Pro adopts NFCA Module, THD+N is as low as 0.00006%. Maximize single ended performance. Both use aluminum alloy shell which made by machining center, exquisite!​

What is Cirus sound style? Sure would them or anyone to elaborate more on this.

 

[Fish17]

Hey woody, thanks for the welcome and your input.

I will try and get to the point and as short as possible, if that's possible. Looking to replace the Dac duties in Parasound Halo P5 preamp.
This is a secondary 2,1 system, but i actually use quite a lot. Gear ( Parasound P5, Anthem amplifier, Hp 1k laptop, Onkyo Cd player, Hd radio tuner, 2 Monolith subs, 1ev sub, 2 way main spk, direct tv, 4k firestick, 4k tv, etc)

The Dac in the P5 is honestly fine when it comes to using the usb connection for computer audio duties. However when using coaxial or optical, it is just plain hard on the old ears. In the past i have spoken with other P5 owners and they seem to concur with my assessment. Simply put, I can listen to audio from the USB (computer) all day long and enjoy it very much, not fatiguing in the slightest. However when it comes to coaxial or optical, 30 minutes and you've got a splitting headache. (harsh, grainy, brittle, choppy, you get the idea, and will sometimes make strange clicks and pops, somethings just isn't right) Room correction software is not going to solve these weird issues going on. All my friends agree, the coaxial and optical are just sh....

So i am going to get another Dac, just looking for a reasonably priced product, that measures well. And i tend overthink things sometimes and can be a little anal looking for perfection (lol). I am all about the measurements first when it comes to audio. However when it comes down to does one sound different than the other, to be honest, I'm still on the fence with that one. I know they should Not sound different, but sometimes i'm not so sure. On a side note, i can't find it right now, but i'm pretty sure in the past i had seen where someone had measured the P5's internal Dac and it confirmed what i was hearing.

One last thing for all wondering, just got an email from Shenzhen about the D30pro, quote-

D30 Pro comes with 4 x CS43198, THD+N is as low as 0.00009%. Cirus Logic sound style, try experiencing a slightly different feeling from ESS and AKM. A30 Pro adopts NFCA Module, THD+N is as low as 0.00006%. Maximize single ended performance. Both use aluminum alloy shell which made by machining center, exquisite!​

What is Cirus sound style? Sure would them or anyone to elaborate more on this.

We sound similar LOL, I just want to make sure I get my money’s worth! At least your mindful of it!

For what it’s worth I’ve been researching for the past week or so and just pulled the trigger on a X16. I wanted something with balanced outputs to replace the internal DAC of the Node 2i so the D30 pro and the SU-9 were on the list with the X16. I thought $399 was quite steep for the D30pro package.

See my post above for my reasoning.

 

[Slayer]

We sound similar LOL, I just want to make sure I get my money’s worth!

For what it’s worth I’ve been researching for the past week or so and just pulled the trigger on a X16. I wanted something with balanced outputs so the D30 pro and the SU-9 were on the list with the X16. I thought $399 was quite steep for the D30pro package.

See my post above for my reasoning for picking the X16

LOL, so true, Value per dollar is king, while still wanting the best and having that itch to get something new. I have also been looking at X16. Does it require special drivers, is it asynchronous usb? Any concerns about product reliability and support? Am i correct in reading it comes with a disk for the audio drivers? Or are you able to download necessary drivers? It really annoys me when manufactures do these type of things now a days. Becoming more of a standard where most laptops don't even come with a cd drive anymore.

 

[Fish17]

LOL, so true, Value per dollar is king, while still wanting the best and having that itch to get something new. I have also been looking at X16. Does it require special drivers, is it asynchronous usb? Any concerns about product reliability and support? Am i correct in reading it comes with a disk for the audio drivers? Or are you able to download necessary drivers? It really annoys me when manufactures do these type of things now a days. Becoming more of a standard where most laptops don't even come with a cd drive anymore.

I just placed my order today but I’m sure someone on the X16 review thread would be able to chime in on the USB integration. I’m using the coax input so didn’t dive into that.

I know Gustard has a presence on these forums as I have seen them reply in the X16 thread.

I’m curious what else is on your shortlist?

 

[jdizzle]

If these prices are correct in my opinion it puts both products in no man's land in terms of pricing, for a similar amount that the D30 Pro costs, a SMSL-SU9 with ES9038Pro can be bought, and the amp is also in the same situation. For not much more there's also D70+A90.

I was willing to give the DAC a try, but with these prices (if they are right) I'll have to pass, I was expecting about 200-250 at most for each unit.

Hmmm I'm looking for something with selectable outputs as I will be sending to both headphone amp and powered speakers. Given this, which DAC in this range would you recommend?

 

[Fish17]

Hmmm I'm looking for something with selectable outputs as I will be sending to both headphone amp and powered speakers. Given this, which DAC in this range would you recommend?

The D30Pro has selectable outputs. I know the X16 outputs are always on (RCA and balanced).

So you need selectable so you can turn off your powered speakers when need be?

 

[Slayer]

I just placed my order today but I’m sure someone on the X16 review thread would be able to chime in on the USB integration. I’m using the coax input so didn’t dive into that.

I know Gustard has a presence on these forums as I have seen them reply in the X16 thread.

I’m curious what else is on your shortlist?

Hey Fish,
My short list is as follows, Gustard x16, Topping D30pro, SMSL 400, and finally Okto dac8stereo.

 

[curiouspeter]

Hey Fish,
My short list is as follows, Gustard x16, Topping D30pro, SMSL 400, and finally Okto dac8stereo.

The Okto looks awesome but what's the delivery timeframe?

Also, for that price the Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 is Roon Ready and it has a prettier screen.

I really like the looks of the Okto though.

 

[Slayer]

The Okto looks awesome but what's the delivery timeframe?

Also, for that price the Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 is Roon Ready and it has a prettier screen.

I really like the looks of the Okto though.

The Okto can be anywhere from 6-8 weeks out, so yep a long wait.

 

[jdizzle]

The D30Pro has selectable outputs. I know the X16 outputs are always on (RCA and balanced).

So you need selectable so you can turn off your powered speakers when need be?

yes, my speakers dont have an accessible power button.

I spose I can just use an amp with two selectable outputs as well, one of them being pass through.

 

[Fish17]

Hey Fish,
My short list is as follows, Gustard x16, Topping D30pro, SMSL 400, and finally Okto dac8stereo.

That Okto looks awesome but that's a huge leap in price.

 

[jumos]

Price is a bit higher than expected, however I think I will be buying this to upgrade my shcitt modius. My cowon plenue D2 has cirrus based DACs and I actually do enjoy the sound of it quite a bit, it does seem a bit more detail and tighter than the AKM based dacs I have (JDS OL DAC, Modius).

I do also like the more minimal features of this DAC, it seems like all of these high performance DACs need to be loaded with all kinds of inputs and modules that I will never use. USB-only is 100% good for me, I would be happy even without volume control. I prefer these costs on the BOM go to other things that will actually improve SQ or reliability or reduce price. If this was USB-only and maybe 50$ lower price would be perfect for me.

I just do not understand why we can't have a high end dac with USB-only, all the nice DACs I see like D90 or X16 are loaded with crap I have no use for and probably negatively affects the sound quality. Even more value-oriented DACs like modius feel the need to throw in useless stuff like coax input and instead cut costs and have bad build quality and horrible microUSB connectors.

I have to say I am also getting kind of tired of the laid back smoothed AKM sound and want something a bit more engaging. This looks like it will be an interesting unit and hope I can get my hands on one soon!

 

[Tks]

I'm sure some of you have heard of 8d audio? Here is one...

Simply channel panning. Did I miss something obvious?

I just do not understand why we can't have a high end dac with USB-only, all the nice DACs I see like D90 or X16 are loaded with crap I have no use for and probably negatively affects the sound quality. Even more value-oriented DACs like modius feel the need to throw in useless stuff like coax input and instead cut costs and have bad build quality and horrible microUSB connectors.

I have to say I am also getting kind of tired of the laid back smoothed AKM sound and want something a bit more engaging. This looks like it will be an interesting unit and hope I can get my hands on one soon!

Loaded with crap? Those are literally some of the highest performing DACs in the entire planet.. Their performance requires measurement devices to tell apart, because your ears will never be able to do so.. Thankfully you said "probably negatively affects the sound quality", where I hope "probably" = less than a single percentage.

What do you mean also with "laid back smoothed AKM sound"? If the frequency response is identical, and distortion products are below audibility - what is a "load back smoothed" sound even constitute?