Thinking outside the (Speaker) Box - Does Stereo Ruin sound?

[Blumlein 88]

Appropriating "mono music" of quality seems to be a thorny endeavor... how does one take L and R content and sum them to a mono mix?

Easy to do with Audacity or similar. However, summed stereo isn't exactly real mono where everything was mono to begin with.

Really not worth much to get too deep into mono music. Stereo has been around so long real mono is nearly extinct. Just a matter of curiosity if you have some old mono music or wonder if it can be satisfying.

Will anything ever make stereo nearly extinct? Will Atmos eventually do that? I think it will be a long time if ever.

The difference between one and two channels is large. The difference between two and five is not inconsiderable, but not half as big a difference as mono vs stereo. Does Atmos for music make such a large difference vs stereo? I cannot answer.

I did notice an article about Mercedes having full Atmos along with seat based tactile transducers in their new EV's.

Mercedes-Benz’s new sound system could finally push music beyond stereo

Why Dolby Atmos in a car is more than a gimmick.

arstechnica.com

 

[levimax]

I might have one or two mono recordings somewhere in my collection....but I usually deliberately bought stereo versions. Do streaming services offer mono mixes?

Interesting the Beatles mono are not on Qobuz.... I searched "mono" and some things popped up including some Rolling Stones Paint it Black. I don't have a lot of mono recordings either but the ones I do have like Julie London and Dinah Washington and Peggy Lee and the Beatles are all "in stereo" on Qobuz. Pretty much my least favorite recording style is early "reprocessed stereo" made from mono recordings with weird hard panning and the like.

 

[AdamG]

Does Atmos for music make such a large difference vs stereo? I cannot answer.

A product produced for ATMOS from conception to capture, is in my very humble opinion, an insurmountable improvement over Stereo. The Hans Zimmer UHD Disc production in ATMOS is but one example. Anyone near me who desires an audition to experience this first hand is more than welcome. Send me a pm and if with in reasonable driving distance? You will be welcomed to come hear what is now possible.

I live within an hour or less of a drive from Tampa or Sarasota Fl.

Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague Blu-ray

Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague Blu-ray Release Date November 3, 2017. Blu-ray reviews, news, specs, ratings, screenshots. Cheap Blu-ray movies and deals.

www.blu-ray.com

I also posted previously about a new software capture using “AI” audio processing tool has been developed that can pickup and isolate each instrument from a recording and create separate audio tracks just for that musical instrument and allow the mixer to place this track anywhere in 3D space. This is the tool they are using to record existing music into ATMOS and/or Spacial 3D audio codec recordings.

On edit: Found the link to article: https://spectrum.ieee.org/3d-audio

 

[MCH]

Pretty much my least favorite recording style is early "reprocessed stereo" made from mono recordings with weird hard panning and the like.

Those "electronically reprocessed stereo" versions were a plague. The good part is that it seems it wasn't so much loathed back in the day and it is often clearly indicated.

 

[Blumlein 88]

A product produced for ATMOS from conception to capture, is in my very humble opinion, an insurmountable improvement over Stereo. The Hans Zimmer UHD Disc production in ATMOS is but one example. Anyone near me who desires an audition to experience this first hand is more than welcome. Send me a pm and if with in reasonable driving distance? You will be welcomed to come hear what is now possible.

I live within an hour or less of a drive from Tampa or Sarasota Fl.

Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague Blu-ray

Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague Blu-ray Release Date November 3, 2017. Blu-ray reviews, news, specs, ratings, screenshots. Cheap Blu-ray movies and deals.

www.blu-ray.com

I also posted previously about a new software capture using “AI” audio processing tool has been developed that can pickup and isolate each instrument from a recording and create separate audio tracks just for that musical instrument and allow the mixer to place this track anywhere in 3D space. This is the tool they are using to record existing music into ATMOS and/or Spacial 3D audio codec recordings.

On edit: Found the link to article: https://spectrum.ieee.org/3d-audio

You aren't the only one to indicate Atmos music is good. I just haven't had a chance at hearing a good demo. I may do an Atmos system one day, but right now it would be hard to sight the overhead speakers well. As of yet not much music is in Atmos, so a bit of a chicken and egg thing. Stereo probably took a decade to mostly supplant mono.

BTW, how many channels do you have in your Atmos system?

 

[Andysu]

" how are we gonna recreate this "
dave rat

 

[Chrispy]

A product produced for ATMOS from conception to capture, is in my very humble opinion, an insurmountable improvement over Stereo. The Hans Zimmer UHD Disc production in ATMOS is but one example. Anyone near me who desires an audition to experience this first hand is more than welcome. Send me a pm and if with in reasonable driving distance? You will be welcomed to come hear what is now possible.

I live within an hour or less of a drive from Tampa or Sarasota Fl.

Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague Blu-ray

Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague Blu-ray Release Date November 3, 2017. Blu-ray reviews, news, specs, ratings, screenshots. Cheap Blu-ray movies and deals.

www.blu-ray.com

I also posted previously about a new software capture using “AI” audio processing tool has been developed that can pickup and isolate each instrument from a recording and create separate audio tracks just for that musical instrument and allow the mixer to place this track anywhere in 3D space. This is the tool they are using to record existing music into ATMOS and/or Spacial 3D audio codec recordings.

On edit: Found the link to article: https://spectrum.ieee.org/3d-audio

How do you think such streaming Atmos tracks compare to recordings from your own collection upmixed via Dolby Surround?

 

[bloodshoteyed]

I did notice an article about Mercedes having full Atmos along with seat based tactile transducers in their new EV's.

Mercedes-Benz’s new sound system could finally push music beyond stereo

Why Dolby Atmos in a car is more than a gimmick.

arstechnica.com

oof, what a fancy wording for buttshakers

they may have been good at inventing (the car), but re-inventing almost always cost them dearly (one extremely stupid thing that comes to mind was biodegradable wiring harnesses in the mid 90's which started failing a loooot too early)

 

[Andysu]

Like this?
View attachment 237927

or this?

PAS-NGCT

Get the retro look combined with the modern sound of a new gen PAS built around the popular AIKIDO line preamp with solid-state power supply.

www.erhard-audio.com

These arrangements take an ungodly amount of fiddling to sound right. Then you go to another recording, and it might sound totally different. So .... you have to start all over again.

Not worth my time and effort. Jim

i forgotten about that ^ i think same for reverse like surround only typically gets hard pan left right crosstalk okay idea

 

[AdamG]

You aren't the only one to indicate Atmos music is good. I just haven't had a chance at hearing a good demo. I may do an Atmos system one day, but right now it would be hard to sight the overhead speakers well. As of yet not much music is in Atmos, so a bit of a chicken and egg thing. Stereo probably took a decade to mostly supplant mono.

BTW, how many channels do you have in your Atmos system?

15.2 depending on Codec choice 7.2.6 or 9.2.4. The Atmos playlists on Amazon, Apple and Tidal grow every day. Best guess estimate is thousands of songs have been released in or converted into Atmos/DTS-X, Spacial, Auro, and 3D formats. Most are backwards and forwards compatible.

But I cede your point that you have to look and dig to find them. You can’t just hit play and relax like Stereo. So a very long way to go at present.

 

[restorer-john]

The issue is that the signal recorded and reproduced in stereo/multichannel has such limited and erroneous information that our hearing system picks it out as artificial.

Our brain only picks it as artificial because it isn't familiar with the original sound or acoustic venue in the first place.

I can make a recording of noisy Australian birds in the forest around the house after the rain, (as I did just a few minutes ago for this thread) and because I live in this acoustic space and hear these sounds every day, I know what sounds real and what doesn't. Trust me, this is exactly what it sounds like. The spatial detail from that little Tascam handheld is spot on.

Put some headphones on and listen to some Aussie birds.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wavil0mg5Lhve3XvVgsugxmg7LJlMQ1a/view?usp=sharing

10 points for the person who hears the fly buzz around...

 

[AdamG]

Our brain only picks it as artificial because it isn't familiar with the original sound or acoustic venue in the first place.

I can make a recording of noisy Australian birds in the forest around the house after the rain, (as I did just a few minutes ago for this thread) and because I live in this acoustic space and hear these sounds every day, I know what sounds real and what doesn't. Trust me, this is exactly what it sounds like. The spatial detail from that little Tascam handheld is spot on.

Put some headphones on and listen to some Aussie birds.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wavil0mg5Lhve3XvVgsugxmg7LJlMQ1a/view?usp=sharing

10 points for the person who hears the fly buzz around...

2:43 thru 2:58 ish the Fly? Very cool, sounds like a recording from a rain forest.

 

[restorer-john]

2:43 thru 2:58 ish the Fly?

About 0:57-0.58 seconds there's a little fly. The part you heard I think is a car down the road (road is about 1km away).

But how does it sound to you? Doesn't sound like your place I'll bet, so does it sound 'artificial' to you? That was the point I am trying to convey- it all depends on what we are familiar with, eh?

 

[Curvature]

Our brain only picks it as artificial because it isn't familiar with the original sound or acoustic venue in the first place.

I can make a recording of noisy Australian birds in the forest around the house after the rain, (as I did just a few minutes ago for this thread) and because I live in this acoustic space and hear these sounds every day, I know what sounds real and what doesn't. Trust me, this is exactly what it sounds like. The spatial detail from that little Tascam handheld is spot on.

Put some headphones on and listen to some Aussie birds.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wavil0mg5Lhve3XvVgsugxmg7LJlMQ1a/view?usp=sharing

10 points for the person who hears the fly buzz around...

You've been habituated into thinking stereo is realistic. Normal acoustic experience is fairly distant from anything over headphones or speakers, where directional and spatial information is compressed into a few channels. Stereo or object based audio aren't perceptual techniques, after all.

 

[AdamG]

About 0:57-0.58 seconds there's a little fly. The part you heard I think is a car down the road (road is about 1km away).

But how does it sound to you? Doesn't sound like your place I'll bet, so does it sound 'artificial' to you? That was the point I am trying to convey- it all depends on what we are familiar with, eh?

To me it sounded very real and lifelike. But I live in South Florida and my home backs up to a lake and a large Nature Preserve. Making this familiar to some extent. You obviously have a few exotic species that we don’t have here. Great recording as it put both my wife and I in your backyard with you.

 

[pseudoid]

But how does it sound to you?

... Sounds like you live in a jungle that you call backyard. and let me guess, you know every bird and sound on first name basis!
I once tried to record the animals around our place but our local termite orchestra is way down in the noise.

EDIT: Thank you @restorer-john, I have put that sound file in my NAS music collection. Ambient music par excellence!

 

[levimax]

Our brain only picks it as artificial because it isn't familiar with the original sound or acoustic venue in the first place.

I can make a recording of noisy Australian birds in the forest around the house after the rain, (as I did just a few minutes ago for this thread) and because I live in this acoustic space and hear these sounds every day, I know what sounds real and what doesn't. Trust me, this is exactly what it sounds like. The spatial detail from that little Tascam handheld is spot on.

Put some headphones on and listen to some Aussie birds.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wavil0mg5Lhve3XvVgsugxmg7LJlMQ1a/view?usp=sharing

10 points for the person who hears the fly buzz around...

Nice recording.... plenty of perceived depth and width and even height... all from 2 speakers. My dogs, who normally ignore my stereo (except for Pink Floyd Animals ) perked up and listened for awhile as well.

 

[Axo1989]

You've been habituated into thinking stereo is realistic. Normal acoustic experience is fairly distant from anything over headphones or speakers, where directional and spatial information is compressed into a few channels. Stereo or object based audio aren't perceptual techniques, after all.

For me the sonics of Australian avifauna are familiar (with regional differences in species). I think such recordings are both realistic and unrealistic. Identifiable tonality and timbre makes it easy to identify known species, and the sonics are suitably evocative. It was fun to listen to.

Subjectively there is a certain spatial and dynamic compression (using that term loosely). Background sound (recorder noise, traffic, some handling noise, etc) is subjectively louder and more proximate. Individual birds are significantly less distributed in space. I'm hearing a range of birds now from my desk (as always, I'm at the intersection of several National Parks) and they are spread around me over considerable and varying distances. I know that won't be the same when recorded.

Some of this is perceptual filtering: distant road noise, passing boats etc intrude once I notice and stop filtering them. I know that when I place and use a mono or stereo microphone set those noises will be more intrusive in a recording. I'd probably use or post-process with a high-pass filter at least. Some of this is spatial information loss with stereo: I know that a binaural mic set will do a better job (headphone playback of course, II didn't try speakers).

I didn't notice the fly on the first listen. Second time lucky. I wish you'd held off on the timing of that for a bit longer and let us guess.

 

[restorer-john]

My dogs, who normally ignore my stereo (except for Pink Floyd Animals ) perked up and listened for awhile as well.

I learned not to play bird sounds on the HiFi when the cat is inside...

 

[restorer-john]

For me the sonics of Australian avifauna are familiar (with regional differences in species). I think such recordings are both realistic and unrealistic. Identifiable tonality and timbre makes it easy to identify known species, and the sonics are suitably evocative. It was fun to listen to.

Subjectively there is a certain spatial and dynamic compression (using that term loosely). Background sound (recorder noise, traffic, some handling noise, etc) is subjectively louder and more proximate. Individual birds are significantly less distributed in space. I'm hearing a range of birds now from my desk (as always, I'm at the intersection of several National Parks) and they are spread around me over considerable and varying distances. I know that won't be the same when recorded.

Some of this is perceptual filtering: distant road noise, passing boats etc intrude once I notice and stop filtering them. I know that when I place and use a mono or stereo microphone set those noises will be more intrusive in a recording. I'd probably use or post-process with a high-pass filter at least. Some of this is spatial information loss with stereo: I know that a binaural mic set will do a better job (headphone playback of course, II didn't try speakers).

I didn't notice the fly on the first listen. Second time lucky. I wish you'd held off on the timing of that for a bit longer and let us guess.

I opened the front door and stood on the top step, so there was primarily sound from 180 degrees in front and vertical I guess. It was just a quick thing to show spatial ability with stereo with little to no recording effort.

Next time, I'll put in more effort. A good excuse to justify that 4 channel field recorder I've been eyeing off...