The World's First Power Amplifier with SINAD over 120!!!

[Χ Ξ Σ]

@WolfX-700 just teased an upcoming power amplifier. Seems like the wait will finally be over… any day now…

風立ちぬ-起风了 - L7Audiolab

访谈、随笔、观点

www.l7audiolab.com

 

[JSmith]

Mere speculation of course... wondering if this is Topping's next offering after the PA5.

@JohnYang1997 hinted at a more powerful version being released... however this is touted as being of a high sinad measurement so far, not power as yet.

Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

... where do we go from here? More power... much more!

audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[Matias]

It's the new Topping class AB amp for sure. Now let's see its design, complete measurements and price.

 

[egellings]

My question is, who cares? Human hearing is simply unable to appreciate that. I laud the engineering expertise needed to achieve that, though.

 

[Eneko]

My question is, who cares? Human hearing is simply unable to appreciate that. I laud the engineering expertise needed to achieve that, though.

Well… not many power amps can be considered transparent (or fully transparent) and, if this one has a reasonable price, it may be able to push and shape the market for better and more reasonable priced power amps. I think we all may gain with it

 

[TimW]

Well… not many power amps can be considered transparent (or fully transparent) and, if this one has a reasonable price, it may be able to push and shape the market for better and more reasonable priced power amps. I think we all may gain with it

Without an audible benefit there is no gain.

 

[Trouble Maker]

Without an audible benefit there is no gain.

Every amplifier has some gain!
Sorry, not sorry, couldn't resist the bad joke.

 

[Eneko]

Without an audible benefit there is no gain.

I disagree. I would really like to have a transparent amp. Unfortunately I can’t afford (don’t want to spend) 3K on one. If this one is able to deliver for around 1K (assuming it provides enough power), then I may gain a new amp ;-)

 

[sergeauckland]

Well… not many power amps can be considered transparent (or fully transparent) and, if this one has a reasonable price, it may be able to push and shape the market for better and more reasonable priced power amps. I think we all may gain with it

Which modern SS power amps aren't transparent? And have been since the 1960s within their limitations of power and load tolerance? By the 1980s, even those limitations were pretty much solved, and with the exception of a few outré loudspeakers, power amps could drive anything sensible completely transparently.

120dB SINAD is completely unnecessary in an audio amplifier, much more important is complete stability and fault protection.

To me it's just a marketing exercise, not an engineering one, although I accept it takes some very competent engineering to achieve such numbers.
S.

 

[TimW]

I disagree. I would really like to have a transparent amp. Unfortunately I can’t afford (don’t want to spend) 3K on one. If this one is able to deliver for around 1K (assuming it provides enough power), then I may gain a new amp ;-)

I suppose piece of mind is priceless.

 

[DVDdoug]

I disagree. I would really like to have a transparent amp.

Perhaps you don't know what "transparent" means.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

I disagree. I would really like to have a transparent amp. Unfortunately I can’t afford (don’t want to spend) 3K on one. If this one is able to deliver for around 1K (assuming it provides enough power), then I may gain a new amp ;-)

Exactly.

As much as its a joy to see the increases in engineering accuracy these days seeing the huge decrease in prices for sota performance is even more marvellous.

High end audio is no longer solely the stuff of smug, wealthy old men.

We still need more VU meters though. And hoverboards.

 

[Eneko]

Perhaps you don't know what "transparent" means.

In my case probably way less than 120db but just in case: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/. As pointed out by our colleague, I would love to not think about it anymore.

 

[Michal]

Which modern SS power amps aren't transparent? And have been since the 1960s within their limitations of power and load tolerance? By the 1980s, even those limitations were pretty much solved, and with the exception of a few outré loudspeakers, power amps could drive anything sensible completely transparently.

120dB SINAD is completely unnecessary in an audio amplifier, much more important is complete stability and fault protection.

To me it's just a marketing exercise, not an engineering one, although I accept it takes some very competent engineering to achieve such numbers.
S.

This SINAD is such a cunning "new marketing" ;-)

 

[egellings]

With improvements in power amplifiers, it's like a runners' race that has finished some time ago and one runner has run. The race is over. Stop running. You've crossed the finish line some time ago. There's no point in running any farther.

 

[sq225917]

In isolation, yes, -120db is excessive. But chained together vs a -100db source, pre and power amp maybe not so much...

 

[Xulonn]

This SINAD is such a cunning "new marketing" ;-)

Not really cunning, (although I do appreciate your snark) - just normal business and marketing methods. Amir and ASR are not selling those amplifiers with "great" SINAD results, but since no single metric can determine what is the "best" amplifier, SINAD was apparently chosen as the "least problematic" metric to allow some form of ranking. For all the complaints we see about SINAD as the primary ranking metric, after the several years that ASR has been online, no one has offered a better solution

Of course, some amplifier "from scratch" manufacturers and commercial ICEPower/Hypex/etc commercial "amplifier on a board" kit assemblers" are using ASR's SINAD results to promote their products. Nothing new or unusual about such marketing strategies. But at least ASR's reviews are completely open, subject to discussion and criticism that is free from censorship, and not influenced by advertiser ad buys.

And of course, any halfway intelligent and informed audio enthusiast knows that even well-designed vacuum tube amps like mine have noise and distortion below audibility in systems with properly matched components. Indeed, for many audio enthusiasts who are not into owning amplifiers just because they have specs way better than necessary, any amplifier in the top 3/4 or so of ASR's chart would probably provide adequate sonics.

And for those who want to have "the best of the best" spec-wise, go for it - and enjoy. I would never begrudge you that pleasure.

 

[tom_tom]

Soncoz sgp-1 maybe ?

 

[antcollinet]

Don't you need SINAD of around 115dB for full tranparency for someone with "20-20" hearing? (together with flat FR) Admittedly for most of us 100 or even 90 might be indistinguishable - The "Dac" I currently use is 90 and sounds fine.

It's the new Topping class AB amp for sure. Now let's see its design, complete measurements and price.

I keep seeing it referred to as a class AB amp - why is that, I've not seen any statement from Topping to that effect. And given that every topping amp to date has been class D...

 

[sergeauckland]

Don't you need SINAD of around 115dB for full tranparency for someone with "20-20" hearing? (together with flat FR) Admittedly for most of us 100 or even 90 might be indistinguishable - The "Dac" I currently use is 90 and sounds fine.


I keep seeing it referred to as a class AB amp - why is that, I've not seen any statement from Topping to that effect. And given that every topping amp to date has been class D...

Depends. SINAD of -60dB is more than adequate for transparency provided that the N part of SINAD is low enough. -60 dB below programme material would be fine for noise, but, it would be audible as noise when the signal is very low or absent, so depending on loudspeaker efficiency, ambient noise, listening distance etc etc, a noise level of -90dB is usually necessary for inaudibility.
What a SINAD of -120dB does, is to guarantee that noise and distortion are both inaudible, which could equally be done by a SINAD of -60dB if it was predominantly distortion and not noise.

S