The Vinyl Frontier

[MattHooper]

+1

Yeah, I've never seen anyone say tape threading, handling, rewinding was a ritual. I guess the LP hit the sweet spot for just enough delay to be a ritual without being a real pain in the rear. But hey, my CD player is belt driven and has a weight to put upon each CD played. Re-creates some of the ritual.

Agreed about the tape stuff.

I spent an ungawdly amount of time in the realm of analog tape both growing up listening to music, and then using tape for film sound. It was such a hassle and I have zero affection for it. I've been thankful ever since digital took over and if someone said we'd have to go back to using tape again I'd quite the business.

 

[Chrispy]

I've kept my last tt around (still works great) and hauled my vinyl collection around all these years. Rarely use it now except for a dose of nostalgia or a recording I don't have a digital version of. I don't find the fussing particularly interesting or "fun" but then after you use it for many many years it just gets old, at least it did for me. I don't think you're missing anything particularly.

 

[Wes]

Didn't FJ "Disc" Turner declare the Vinyl Frontier closed?

 

[Robin L]

Agreed about the tape stuff.

I spent an ungawdly amount of time in the realm of analog tape both growing up listening to music, and then using tape for film sound. It was such a hassle and I have zero affection for it. I've been thankful ever since digital took over and if someone said we'd have to go back to using tape again I'd quite the business.

The ability to attempt an edit in multiple ways, the lack of any wow, flutter or wobble, the lack of background noise. The only thing you give up in exchange is that soft clipping, if you're lucky enough to be working with a top line deck. But as regards the ease and flexibility of editing music [anything], digital recording is a freakin' miracle.

 

[Mariner9]

I finally got myself into the vinyl game. I bought a turntable and a few records to start. I began with low expectations but it still managed to disappoint. Am I missing something?

I bought vinyl for over 10 years as it was the only way to get the music I liked. Since ~2006, I have been replacing as much as possible with lossless downloads or CDs (as some tracks eventually appeared on compilations). Went from ~2500 records to ~300.

I hate vinyl. It's heavy, bulky, extremely expensive (~$25+ for a 12" once you include shipping vs. ~$2 for the download), requires a lot of care (e.g. regular cleaning), and the sound quality is often terrible because of the pressing. I don't see the appeal. Dance music 12"s never had liner notes and were often white labels with no artwork so those pitches aren't applicable.

 

[curiouspeter]

I bought vinyl for over 10 years as it was the only way to get the music I liked. Since ~2006, I have been replacing as much as possible with lossless downloads or CDs (as some tracks eventually appeared on compilations). Went from ~2500 records to ~300.

I hate vinyl. It's heavy, bulky, extremely expensive (~$25+ for a 12" once you include shipping vs. ~$2 for the download), requires a lot of care (e.g. regular cleaning), and the sound quality is often terrible because of the pressing. I don't see the appeal. Dance music 12"s never had liner notes and were often white labels with no artwork so those pitches aren't applicable.

I mostly use my turntable for old music that has no good digital alternatives. The newest record I own was from 1992.

I only have an entry-level TT. The sound quality is atrocious. Perhaps if I invests thousands more it will be merely bad. Anyhow, I embrace it as a meditation tool.

 

[Mariner9]

I mostly use my turntable for old music that has no good digital alternatives. The newest record I own was from 1992.

I only have an entry-level TT. The sound quality is atrocious. Perhaps if I invests thousands more it will be merely bad. Anyhow, I embrace it as a meditation tool.

I have a Pro-ject Carbon turntable and Rega phono pre-amp. If the recording is badly pressed, no amount of spending on hardware will help.

 

[MattHooper]

I bought vinyl for over 10 years as it was the only way to get the music I liked. Since ~2006, I have been replacing as much as possible with lossless downloads or CDs (as some tracks eventually appeared on compilations). Went from ~2500 records to ~300.

I hate vinyl. It's heavy, bulky, extremely expensive (~$25+ for a 12" once you include shipping vs. ~$2 for the download), requires a lot of care (e.g. regular cleaning), and the sound quality is often terrible because of the pressing. I don't see the appeal. Dance music 12"s never had liner notes and were often white labels with no artwork so those pitches aren't applicable.

Reminds me of Gardening. Some people love the process, the work of gardening. The find it relaxing and rewarding. I f*cking hate it; nothing could be more drudgery. The aspects of gardening either appeal to you or they don't.

So I get why many people wouldn't care for vinyl. If the physical characteristics of vinyl aren't something that actually appeals, then it's just a ridiculous pursuit in a world with digital alternatives.

 

[curiouspeter]

I have a Pro-ject Carbon turntable and Rega phono pre-amp. If the recording is badly pressed, no amount of spending on hardware will help.

Maybe I will get a new ABBA record to try.

Usually, if Qobuz has an album, I considered it money saved.

 

[Taketheflame]

I bought vinyl for over 10 years as it was the only way to get the music I liked. Since ~2006, I have been replacing as much as possible with lossless downloads or CDs (as some tracks eventually appeared on compilations). Went from ~2500 records to ~300.

I hate vinyl. It's heavy, bulky, extremely expensive (~$25+ for a 12" once you include shipping vs. ~$2 for the download), requires a lot of care (e.g. regular cleaning), and the sound quality is often terrible because of the pressing. I don't see the appeal. Dance music 12"s never had liner notes and were often white labels with no artwork so those pitches aren't applicable.

Reminds me of this one -

 

[curiouspeter]

Reminds me of this one -

View attachment 117363

Well, if you want isolation feet to make a difference, you have to get a turntable.

 

[MattHooper]

Reminds me of this one -

View attachment 117363

Aagh!

It was only a matter of time before that cartoon showed up. At this point it seems to be embedded in the laws of physics that any thread about the nature of vinyl will cause someone to post that thing.

 

[Robin L]

Aagh!

It was only a matter of time before that cartoon showed up. At this point it seems to be embedded in the laws of physics that any thread about the nature of vinyl will cause someone to post that thing.

We can call it Hooper's Law, analogous to Godwin's Law:

The theory that as an online discussion of LPs and LP related gear progresses, it becomes inevitable that this:

. . . will be posted.

 

[MattHooper]

I often visit the reddit vinyl forum which has a constant flow of people just getting in to vinyl. Lots of musicians, indie artists, post about getting their album pressed on vinyl and say it makes them giddy to actually be able to hold their work in that physical form. Seems to make the process "complete" in a way that just sending it off in to the digital ether doesn't quite match.

 

[Wes]

They should try holding wax cylinders - tres groovey

 

[Grumple]

I went on a badly thought through vinyl journey. Thinking, erroneously, that it would sound better. So I have the equipment and a fair few records that I bought at that stage. However, I still buy records for a couple-o'-three reasons; As many have mentioned, the ritual; giving some dues to the artists rather than the "how much do you want to pay" blag on bandcamp (I don't know how much you tell me!); recently though the biggest reason is the artwork. A great example of this is Czarface, the artwork by Lamour Supreme is right up my street and isn't done justice by being stared at on a screen. So I am happy to pay for the records because I want more Czarface albums and I want to support them and Lamour Supreme.

Having said all that... I hate my turntable, it looks cheap, it is cheap, it plays fast, it takes up space etc...But, I cannot bring myself to buy another one because the medium is so inherently flawed.

I also have a R2R, an AKAI GX4000D. I use it to make recordings of playlists. I do that because it forces me to think about the music in a different way, the ordering of the list is more important because there is an illusion of permanency. It's fun to show off to people when they come round and put on in the background, again necessitating a good playlist ordering with which to facilitate the conversation amongst the listening. Also it sounds brilliant, my hearing is limited, (standing in front of bass stacks at raves thinking "I'm sure my heart skipped a beat" and "my eyes are vibrating" is probably responsible), so I'm no "golden ear" and consequently I can barely tell the difference between 7 1/2 ips recordings of hi-res files and the originals. If it were not for the wow and flutter I couldn't possibly tell at normal listening levels. Oddly enough hip hop works especially well on this format.

Amongst the audiophile community then I suppose I am somewhat of an outlier. I know the limitations of the analogue medium yet continue to use them, not for fidelity but for fun. As with many other hobbies, the fun element, seems to be lost on some people, lamentably.

 

[Jas0_0]

I’d been exclusively digital for more than a decade. Then I got a turntable to play records I was finding in charity shops and old dance 12 inchers I bought in my teens. This was before I understood room correction and I found I preferred the sound of vinyl in my bright, undamped room compared to digital - probably because the rolled-off highs were kinder to my ears. I also liked handling records and having a physical music collection. So I bought more records, both used and new, and a better turntable.

Then I discovered room correction and digital became far far better. But I continue to buy vinyl. This might sound like madness considering the cost of new records, and especially since removing the ability to play records would halve what I’d spent on my system.

The thing is I still love vinyl. A good pressing can somehow still sound better to me than the equivalent digital file. I am fully aware that this is most likely either a distortion that I find pleasing, or some psychoacoustic effect.

On the latter, I wonder if there’s something in the visual aspect of vinyl. Sight is the most important human sense. Unless affected by trauma or genetic abnormality, we receive 80% of what we perceive of the world through our eyes. I wonder if simply watching a record spin and understanding that the music is created by the interaction of groove and diamond there right in front of us is somehow more satisfying than sitting looking at inert boxes of digital wonder in which music is formed from a stream of noughts and ones in a manner that, unless we’re technically gifted, is utterly incomprehensible.

 

[Frank Dernie]

R2R is becoming the next hype. The problem is that there are very few recordings on sale and they cost what - 10 times of a record? Forget it.

It is a really astonishing fashion, maybe the enthusiasts for whom more expensive definitely means better are drawn in, but whilst in principle R2R tape can be superior to LPs in a domestic setting, only if you make your own recordings.
The high speed duplicate tapes are noisy and lack treble, are susceptible shedding to print through and stretching, and altogether ridiculous fashion since the only good bit is that R2R recorders look cool.
I consider my valve amp and Revox R2R as display items.

 

[Mariner9]

Vinyl seems to be a status symbol in dance music. People will pay 50-100 pounds (or more) for 12"s when the tracks are available on CD for a tenth of the price or as lossless downloads for even less. Furthermore, it seems people will pay more for promos or test presses than the actual release. I guess those confer some bragging rights.

 

[sergeauckland]

Vinyl seems to be a status symbol in dance music. People will pay 50-100 pounds (or more) for 12"s when the tracks are available on CD for a tenth of the price or as lossless downloads for even less. Furthermore, it seems people will pay more for promos or test presses than the actual release. I guess those confer some bragging rights.

I've noticed a number of Test Pressings appearing on eBay recently. I'm not sure whether these are actually better or worse than normal releases. The implication is that they're better.

I suppose it depends on how good the cut was. If good, then a test pressing should be the best, given that the stampers are brand new. If the cut was poor, (or the metallurgy went wrong, so the stamper is poor) then it will be worse than a release...that's what a test pressing is for!

Is there any logic to what people think is valuable?

S.