The Phison PD2 DAC/Preamp

[Thomas savage]

Well Srajan's review hasn't diminished my enthusiasm for the PD2, it still looks like a cracking piece of kit.
Keith

Have you listened to music through it yet barrowmaster?

 

[Mivera]

Well Srajan's review hasn't diminished my enthusiasm for the PD2, it still looks like a cracking piece of kit.
Keith

It is, but I can't see how improperly setting up Hqplayer , and because of it saying "DSD performance is far from superior" did any good for the review. It's like a car manufacturer sending a car in for review to Car and Driver with flat tires and expecting them to report amazing performance. He didn't even test native DSD. Only PCM converted to DSD in a very poor fashion. But the words "DSD performance is far from superior" will be what sticks in the mind of the readers. This is because 99.9% of people have no idea what Hqplayer is, how it works or anything about it.

 

[Purité Audio]

I would have thought only a small percentage of customers are worried about DSD, but I take your point.
Keith

 

[Mivera]

I would have thought only a small percentage of customers are worried about DSD, but I take your point.
Keith

If you have been paying attention, from the first couple posts of this thread, as well as everywhere else, it's the DSD performance I've been raving about. And it's the PD2 used in combination with a properly setup server running HQplayer converting PCM to DSD is what makes this DAC head and shoulders better than anything out there, even at double the price. If it wasn't for the DSD performance of the PD2, I wouldn't be selling it plain and simple.

 

[Purité Audio]

I have yet to be convinced by DSD is I shall enjoy exploring the PD2's capabilities.
Keith

 

[Mivera]

I have yet to be convinced by DSD is I shall enjoy exploring the PD2's capabilities.
Keith

Well I may have worded my last comment poorly. Before finding Sonny and his DAC's I was on a quest to look for the ultimate DAC to use with HQplayer PCM-DSD upsampling. The PD2 passed with flying colors and has exceeded my expectations for the application. But this isn't downplaying the straight PCM performance at all. As the 6 moons review confirms, it's stellar as well. It's just not as good as its DSD performance in my opinion.

 

[BobShermanEsq]

Well Srajan's review hasn't diminished my enthusiasm for the PD2, it still looks like a cracking piece of kit.
Keith

Hi Keith,

I am responding to you because it's rather difficult to respond and talk sense to the senseless. It was actually a very good review and if the individual that keeps crying actually read it, he might understand what was said. First of all it's obvious the reviewer does not care for DSD. He is not the only one, many hear the exact same qualities that he describes and they prefer PCM. Furthermore the comments at the end was not about this DAC, but DSD as a whole so a tantrum was really unnecessary.

Also if someone bothered to read what was said in the review about basically keeping the startup volume down if you mess up a setting... Clearly could signify that that volume setting was not necessarily a listening setting but just became a screenshot for the review. To jump to conclusions and start stamping one's feet and basically saying the reviewer is clueless and needs a new computer is really unnecessary.

It's actually excellent review, of what seems to be a very good DAC, but God knows why Sonny would want to be involved with and allow someone to distribute his product over here that clearly still has a lot to learn.

Regards
Bob

 

[Mivera]

Hi Keith,

I am responding to you because it's rather difficult to respond and talk sense to the senseless. It was actually a very good review and if the individual that keeps crying actually read it, he might understand what was said. First of all it's obvious the reviewer does not care for DSD. He is not the only one, many hear the exact same qualities that he describes and they prefer PCM. Furthermore the comments at the end was not about this DAC, but DSD as a whole so a tantrum was really unnecessary.

Also if someone bothered to read what was said in the review about basically keeping the startup volume down if you mess up a setting... Clearly could signify that that volume setting was not necessarily a listening setting but just became a screenshot for the review. To jump to conclusions and start stamping one's feet and basically saying the reviewer is clueless and needs a new computer is really unnecessary.

It's actually excellent review, of what seems to be a very good DAC, but God knows why Sonny would want to be involved with and allow someone to distribute his product over here that clearly still has a lot to learn.

Regards
Bob

You have no idea what you're even talking about. The reason that the extra section about the DSD was even added to the review is because I told Sonny that I wished he would have reviewed the DAC for DSD performance, since this is what I feel shines the best with the DAC. So he sent him an email to request that he does so. However I didn't say get him to test the DSD performance with poorly configured PCM-DSD upsampling software. Using Hqplayer to test the DSD performance is not the appropriate tool to test the DSD performance of a DAC, especially when setup wrong. Most reviewers who test DSD performance of a DAC use native DSD recordings. You don't need Hqplayer to get the best from them. Even Jriver is perfectly fine with native DSD. That Imac isn't even capable of being setup properly with Hqplayer and the PD2. There's only 1 modulator that I found is a good match with the PD2 and that's the DSD7 256+ modulator. For that to work, you must have Linux with the PD2. Because the PD2 can only accept DSD 128 over DoP from OSX. I spent 6 months testing Hqplayer with Sonny's DAC's, and I know what configurations are good, and which ones are poor. I have 3 Mac's, 3 windows computers and several Linux based streamers. I've tested the PD2 and previous prototypes with all of them. Nothing can touch using a Linux based streamer/server, so this is why I'm including a Linux based streamer for free with all of the PD2's I sell.

And I will have a feedback section on my website for the Linux based streamer. My clients will provide honest, unbiased feedback on using the streamer vs using any other computer/configuration/software. We can let that feedback do the talking.

 

[Mivera]

For a limited time the PD2 is going to come with 1 free future DAC upgrade. This means the next cutting edge DAC Sonny comes up with for the PD2 will be upgraded for free! I hear rumours it will be the mother of all 1 bit discrete DSD DAC's combined with the mother of all PCM DAC's.

I told Sonny either he offers this, or Bob Sherman can take over North American distribution

 

[Geardaddy]

Well Srajan's review hasn't diminished my enthusiasm for the PD2, it still looks like a cracking piece of kit.
Keith

Keith, I am looking forward to your impressions since you own some of the best speakers in the world IMO. Are you getting the Phison amps as well?

 

[Geardaddy]

Hi Keith,

I am responding to you because it's rather difficult to respond and talk sense to the senseless. It was actually a very good review and if the individual that keeps crying actually read it, he might understand what was said. First of all it's obvious the reviewer does not care for DSD. He is not the only one, many hear the exact same qualities that he describes and they prefer PCM. Furthermore the comments at the end was not about this DAC, but DSD as a whole so a tantrum was really unnecessary.

Also if someone bothered to read what was said in the review about basically keeping the startup volume down if you mess up a setting... Clearly could signify that that volume setting was not necessarily a listening setting but just became a screenshot for the review. To jump to conclusions and start stamping one's feet and basically saying the reviewer is clueless and needs a new computer is really unnecessary.

It's actually excellent review, of what seems to be a very good DAC, but God knows why Sonny would want to be involved with and allow someone to distribute his product over here that clearly still has a lot to learn.

Regards
Bob

Bob, why are you stalking Blizzard? You guys have had pissing matches on multiple forums and now it seems personal. Your comments are not particularly edifying at this time. Yes, Mike can be a little blunt and messianic in his convictions coupled with slightly autistic interpersonal skills and Red Bullish mania. That aside, he has done his due diligence with this stuff and deserves credit for that. I have found his suggestions helpful. I employed his streamer concept and he took a lot of his personal time (including hacking into my computer remotely) to tweak the setup. I find most audiophiles enjoy blowing smoke online with little in the way of due diligence (and the empirical evidence that comes from it) to back it up.

Bob, have you personally used HQPlayer? DSD? What setup are you currently using for digital files?

As for Srajan's review, I too was left with mixed feelings. I am a fan of his writing in general (many people are not), and he does have a lot of good insights into audio. On the other hand, amidst his swirling and lengthy preludes (and ironically rather short analysis), it is easy to come away disoriented like the tail end of some acid trip...lots of revelations but an inability to reconstruct anything meaningful. He grudgingly added the DSD addendum with HQPlayer and simply blurted out his historical bias against the format against the backdrop of bungled setting as Mike alluded to. You can radically alter the sound with different settings. That software is very powerful. I use it with Roon and dig it!

I "thought" that the raison d'être of the PD2 digital section was the filterless DSD mode? The fact that Sonny has a new custom board pending speaks volumes. Maybe he can tell us more about it?

 

[Mivera]

Just to be clear, Sonny isn't working on a new DAC board because there's something wrong with the current one. It's just evolving with technology like was the original intention of the design. But I'm quite confident after the next DAC board comes out it will be a long while before another upgrade will come out

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

Fresh start:

The new DAC section that I am working on is a combination DAC

The difficult thing to do is to combine a separate DSD section with a PCM section.

The DSD section and PCM for that matter is very demanding.

The digital circuits switching between high and low is very seldom identical meaning unlinear distortion components.

The obvious choice would be a class D output stage but for DSD it does not switch fast enough and is very bulky.

Many then choices CMOS gates for doing the job and deriving the signal from the output of the gate through a filter and a gain block. This goes for PCM as well.

So a lot of testing is needed here to find the best solution or something alternatively is needed.

Then we have the reference voltage block: it needs to be low impedance over a wide range. So audiophile capacitors are a no go here. It needs to be low impedance to several hundreds of megahertz.

Extra problem that needs to be solved is to switch DSD off fast enough if DSD data or clock disappear.. Within 4 clock pulses. -> ~400nsec.

This is what I address in the new DAC board that I am working on.

Picture is the phono stage

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

The DSD and maybe the PCM will be fully discreet

 

[Geardaddy]

Just to be clear, Sonny isn't working on a new DAC board because there's something wrong with the current one. It's just evolving with technology like was the original intention of the design. But I'm quite confident after the next DAC board comes out it will be a long while before another upgrade will come out

I was not implying that. He is an OCD engineer and that is ALWAYS a good thing.

 

[Mivera]

I was not implying that. He is an OCD engineer and that is ALWAYS a good thing.

Yes when you're on the pursuit for perfection, the only time you will ever get rest is when you're 6 feet under

 

[Mivera]

Fresh start:

The new DAC section that I am working on is a combination DAC

The difficult thing to do is to combine a separate DSD section with a PCM section.

The DSD section and PCM for that matter is very demanding.

The digital circuits switching between high and low is very seldom identical meaning unlinear distortion components.

The obvious choice would be a class D output stage but for DSD it does not switch fast enough and is very bulky.

Many then choices CMOS gates for doing the job and deriving the signal from the output of the gate through a filter and a gain block. This goes for PCM as well.

So a lot of testing is needed here to find the best solution or something alternatively is needed.

Then we have the reference voltage block: it needs to be low impedance over a wide range. So audiophile capacitors are a no go here. It needs to be low impedance to several hundreds of megahertz.

Extra problem that needs to be solved is to switch DSD off fast enough if DSD data or clock disappear.. Within 4 clock pulses. -> ~400nsec.

This is what I address in the new DAC board that I am working on.

Picture is the phono stage

Nice to finally see pictures of the Phono stage board! I can't wait until Stephen shares his impressions of it!

 

[Mivera]

Keith, I am looking forward to your impressions since you own some of the best speakers in the world IMO. Are you getting the Phison amps as well?

I don't think any dealer has actually heard the PD2 yet besides me. So far all anyone has to go off of is my word and Srajan's. Srajan says the DSD performance sucks, and the PCM performance sucks compared to the Rockna wavedream. I say BS.

 

[Opus111]

You've heard the Rockna?

 

[Mivera]

You've heard the Rockna?

No I haven't, and I'm not doubting that he's telling the truth about thinking the Rockna is better. But he hasn't heard the DSD performance of the PD2 properly. I'm confident that with my $2500 server combined with the PD2 would smoke the Rockna with PCM, and still be $1000 less with transport and all.