The "new" Class D vs A/B amps

[gfinlays]

I hope they are better at audio than at typography and visual design.

You can ask him yourself, he's a regular around here

 

[mocenigo]

I broadly agree but I think you take a slightly too extreme a view where you don’t account for varying acuity of hearing between individuals and varying desire to learn to hear subtle differences.

But it you DO take into account varying acuity of hearing you can only conclude that most amplifiers, if used in their correct conditions, cannot be distinguished at all by human beings.

 

[mocenigo]

“Outperforming” an elite AB amp such as ATI siggie, I don’t know. If the FTC standard is kept substantially unchanged, as I understand it, on paper a lot of the D amps will need downwards power rating revisions—regardless of relevance to real world use. An ATI 6000 probably will keep substantially the same ratings.

I am absolutely sure that a properly designed Purifi 1et9040ba amplifier, or even a Nilai or NCx500 would outperform even a top of the line d’Agostino, except perhaps for power output.

But the better D amps are load invariant, with lots of power at low noise and distortion, while being cheaper, smaller, and lighter. Whatever spec difference is of no real audible consequence except maybe in an edge case such as directly driving a compression driver, in which case you’d want all the SNR and low gain so as to minimize amplification of upstream noise.

 

[mocenigo]

OMG, should I ditch my Canare 4S11 and make speaker cables out of 35 mm² (2 AWG) welding cable instead?

If you can get pure 11N silver 2AWG cables, that is ;-)

 

[Sokel]

a top of the line d’Agostino, except perhaps for power output.

I wouldn't put that as a benchmark.
A Halcro Eclipse mono at current-mode input at a lowest price point (but not cheap) maybe.

(who would have thought that such an amp would come from non-audio people)

 

[mocenigo]

I wouldn't put that as a benchmark.

That's why I cited it.

A Halcro Eclipse mono at current-mode input at a lowest price point (but not cheap) maybe.

THe Halcros seem to be designed really well.

(who would have thought that such an amp would come from non-audio people)

 

[ZolaIII]

I hope they are better at audio than at typography and visual design.

No, not really. Regarding inversion of impulse response same rule as with PEQ applies don't do the dips or do them up to +2 (not +5) dB. However impuls matching is worthy edition and VBA shows how you can deel with room fundamental even with FIR (IIR is better for that) but do it with single PEQ by hand instead as it's both easier and more effective. Such correction in highs will work if they already have relatively good focus increasing it as the result. If they aren't limited accustic treatment in that direction is needed and convolution will without it sound worse than without inversion. Last but not least and not mandatory you play with phase.
@wow77459 there are series of videos by the host on how to read and understand measurements. Watch some when you get time and don't worry you will understand it.

I am avoiding this conversation as told many times there are state of art class G and H amplifiers and more modest designs if used to they design advantages end not having weaknesses for the application even average designs can be all you need and want. Example: unfiltered highs cheap simple class D plate amp for subwoofer's.

 

[Kblade]

I am absolutely sure that a properly designed Purifi 1et9040ba amplifier, or even a Nilai or NCx500 would outperform even a top of the line d’Agostino, except perhaps for power output.

I know this is late to the game. I would agree with that. Class D amps are the future and the future is now. I own a lot of class A and AB amplifiers such as Pass, Pathos, and Classe. I took home an NAD M-33 and a Hifi rose 180 integrated, wow!. I can’t believe how good they sound. The Hifi rose is phenomenal. I think in my opinion as far as the ability to drive any speaker and sound quality they have surpassed anything I’ve heard. No heat dead quiet no more closed in sound. Just sounds right I’m not going back. Now I just need to choose, and sell all my class A/AB amplifiers.
Any other recommendations are greatly appreciated

 

[Mike4700h]

Received my Buckeye Hypex NCx 500-3 and am very impressed! My neighbor has the Mcintosh MA9500 driving 803's and we could not hear any difference when substituting the Buckeye in for the Mac......even when playing at levels that were extreme. The visual difference between the two amps made this observation amazing. A "WTF" moment! My "bling bias" is so strong I still find myself doubting my senses

 

[antcollinet]

Received my Buckeye Hypex NCx 500-3 and am very impressed! My neighbor has the Mcintosh MA9500 driving 803's and we could not hear any difference when substituting the Buckeye in for the Mac......even when playing at levels that were extreme. The visual difference between the two amps made this observation amazing. A "WTF" moment! My "bling bias" is so strong I still find myself doubting my senses

Modern class D has created a new world.

 

[KL....]

Modern class D has created a new world.

Yes it would seem so but has classD reached its pinnacle and has classB/AB reached its pinnacle (such examples as AH2B, B100, B200, etc). Will we see GaN with PFFB soon, even via chips, perhaps the Axign AX5689/DSP/??? has opened the door wide enough for progression? Fortunately, gallium is found in bauxite which is fairly abundant and 3D printing has become sufficiently mature.... hasn't it? It would appear to be a nice progression of classB/D technology and the control of crossover/dead time distortion/noise issues.... is that correct?

 

[Mike4700h]

Question slightly off topic:
Do these amps (NCx 500-3/NC502-8) run cool enough to stack one over the other in an open shelf with 2 inches of space before next shelf?

 

[Julf]

Yes it would seem so but has classD reached its pinnacle and has classB/AB reached its pinnacle (such examples as AH2B, B100, B200, etc). Will we see GaN with PFFB soon, even via chips, perhaps the Axign AX5689/DSP/??? has opened the door wide enough for progression? Fortunately, gallium is found in bauxite which is fairly abundant and 3D printing has become sufficiently mature.... hasn't it? It would appear to be a nice progression of classB/D technology and the control of crossover/dead time distortion/noise issues.... is that correct?

They have all reached audible perfection when operated inside their design envelope. Sure, you can keep improving measurements, but you won't hear a difference.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I own three Buckeye amplifiers and their performance is spectacular. If you value your amplifier only reproducing the source accurately then these are the way to go. I want my system to be as accurate to the source as possible so my speakers, amplifiers and other components are the lowest distortion, flattest frequency response on-axis and downward tilt sound power off-axis. So your speakers are an important part of the chain here because these amplifiers will expose their weaknesses if they are not also accurate. Once I took the plunge to "accuracy" I have never turned back. But it takes some getting used to.
With Buckeye, you're getting a company with integrity. They follow measurements and science. There is no fluff or BS with them. If something is wrong with their product, they fix it. They are willing to send products to Amir for real scrutiny and they pass the test. Plus, I've put my Buckeye amplifiers through a lot of stress and they always pass the test. I think they are the best value amplifier available anywhere,

 

[Ropeburn]

I own three Buckeye amplifiers and their performance is spectacular. If you value your amplifier only reproducing the source accurately then these are the way to go. I want my system to be as accurate to the source as possible so my speakers, amplifiers and other components are the lowest distortion, flattest frequency response on-axis and downward tilt sound power off-axis. So your speakers are an important part of the chain here because these amplifiers will expose their weaknesses if they are not also accurate. Once I took the plunge to "accuracy" I have never turned back. But it takes some getting used to.
With Buckeye, you're getting a company with integrity. They follow measurements and science. There is no fluff or BS with them. If something is wrong with their product, they fix it. They are willing to send products to Amir for real scrutiny and they pass the test. Plus, I've put my Buckeye amplifiers through a lot of stress and they always pass the test. I think they are the best value amplifier available anywhere,

Even if you like "colour" and "character" - nothing wrong with that - you're still better off starting with a neutral amplifier and do the sound adjustment to taste at source/preamp level. It's way more flexible than having a less accurate amplifier that may work to your liking with one pair of speakers, but not with another. It's also much cheaper to do than getting a new amp that "synergises" (gosh, can you tell how much I hate that term in this context) with your next speakers.

Synergy, n.

The rare and happy accident of two deeply flawed audio components working together to one's liking

 

[KL....]

They have all reached audible perfection when operated inside their design envelope. Sure, you can keep improving measurements, but you won't hear a difference.

Perhaps but a Note is just a Note without Harmonics of the Note (music) and low energy Harmonics are easyly confused/lost/filtered/merged with noise/distortion.... aren't they? so perhaps not :=)

 

[ahofer]

Question slightly off topic:
Do these amps (NCx 500-3/NC502-8) run cool enough to stack one over the other in an open shelf with 2 inches of space before next shelf?

With the units I've got (purifi and hypex p252) this would be no problem, and I'd have to believe even the NC500s would be fine. There should be a little bit of space between the units themselves - do they have feet to accomplish that?

 

[Julf]

Perhaps but a Note is just a Note without Harmonics of the Note (music) and low energy Harmonics are easyly confused/lost/filtered/merged with noise/distortion.... aren't they? so perhaps not :=)

If your ear can't hear a difference, it doesn't matter. Double-blind ABX listening tests can confirm if something is audible or not - and modern amps have reached that level quite a while ago.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

They have all reached audible perfection when operated inside their design envelope. Sure, you can keep improving measurements, but you won't hear a difference.

And it all took place decades ago -B&O ICEpower (2000), Hypex UcD (2001), Yamaha MX-D1 (2004), etc.

 

[Mike4700h]

With the units I've got (purifi and hypex p252) this would be no problem, and I'd have to believe even the NC500s would be fine. There should be a little bit of space between the units themselves - do they have feet to accomplish that?

Yes...feet keep the amps separated about 1/2 inch or better.