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The "new" Class D vs A/B amps

Mike4700h

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Getting ready to purchase a Buckeye NCx500 2 Ch amp to drive B&W 802's. I have read glowing reviews and Amir has put this on his recommended list above other seriously expensive amps. I was originally considering ATI 6002-2, Anthem STR, Mark Levinson 5302. From reading reviews of the Hypex and Purify amps, it seems that the new class D amps are outperforming the "higher-end" A/B monsters. Is this actually the case? Other (anecdotal) reviews regarding Class D have said that the distortion is low, power is abundant....but mid's and lows lack texture and slam. I have no experience here, lack a golden ear, and am fighting a bias that "heavier, and more expensive" has to be better:( Please advise.....Would love to spend less if I was not sacrificing performance....
 
Other (anecdotal) reviews regarding Class D have said that the distortion is low, power is abundant....but mid's and lows lack texture and slam.
This is why one should never take reviews of electronics seriously when the "reviewer" doesn't bother with basic controls.

I've done an NCx500 build (and published review!) and they work exactly as they should: make a small signal larger and do nothing else.
 
I do not own the Buckeye amp you referenced, but as a gearhead, I've done my research. SIY is correct; if your goal is 'straight wire with gain', then this amp is damn near perfect. Lack texture and slam? What does that mean, and when in the hell is an amp supposed to do that? That's the job of the music, not the amp.
 
It's hard to let go of long held ideas, and it's difficult to accept that less expensive can be better. That's pretty normal.

Look at the measurements of amps like that Buckeye: whatever you put into it, comes out louder - across the audible frequency range.

Think about what it means for an amp to add 'slam' or change 'texture'. I don't know what those things are but an amp would have to change the timing of a signal, or to change some frequencies. No-one wants that! Good amps don't, by definition, do anything like that.

Look for simple explanations, based on engineering principles (or physics) for those sort of terms; slam, texture. You won't find anything, because they don't exist.

Take a moment, take a breath. Accept that what you have been told before is simply not true.
Enjoy the Buckeye!
 
No it's not the case nor they are class A-B or D but G or A-F and H. Performance depends from actual engineering level put into it and based goal regarding budget for the project. In this regard H based one's prioritising performance win to up to medium output straight (350~400 W @ 8 ohms 1 KHZ) regarding price. Still if you want long warranty and brand you know will deliver spare parts and SoM's for at least 10 years like ATI you have to pay for it and then it doesn't cost less than property in hause G class one like Benchmark AHB2 and same lv of support and warranty. If you want slam put 10" mid bass woofer and generally improve your speakers all across the range and let their THD be lead not amplifier one. In other words you don't even need superb performing amplifier nor will you probably use such when you need much output (cost reason's) in sub's (even to drive passive ones) old good class D plate amp's and not particularly good engineered, filtered and mid (80's) performing will be just fine (as it doesn't matter to; THD you achieve on subwoofer driver and also to our hearing range and they won't really reproduce anything else than bottom end anyway).
 
Try it out and use your ears!
I have been there several times now, latest trying out Hypex NCx and latest Purify versions. Yes, they sound very “clean and correct” with wonderfull control of speakers, but every time I am ending up with class A/B solutions. After moving focus from figures and asking myself, “what kind of sound” do really touch me most when enjoying music!
 
Try it out and use your ears!
I have been there several times now, latest trying out Hypex NCx and latest Purify versions. Yes, they sound very “clean and correct” with wonderfull control of speakers, but every time I am ending up with class A/B solutions. After moving focus from figures and asking myself, “what kind of sound” do really touch me most when enjoying music!
I think what you are describing is the essence of audiophilia. It’s a mindset and a personal, subjective experience, very detached from a formal, correct and measured engineering approach. It’s backed up by the audiophile media and press. The separation from science is often promoted in order to give validation to those who are most invested in the subjective experience.

I’m interested to know what attributes you think an amplifier can possess in order for it to be more musically satisfying to you?
 
Think about what it means for an amp to add 'slam' or change 'texture'. I don't know what those things are but an amp would have to change the timing of a signal, or to change some frequencies. No-one wants that! Good amps don't, by definition, do anything like that.
I first heard the term ‘slam’ used in a review of a Krell amplifier in the mid 90s (HIFI News & Record Review). For me this logically related to power output and reserves and high damping factor, leading to impressive SPL from bass transients (content permitting).

I don’t think an amplifier can posses good ‘slam’, rather it can only impede true dynamic requirement.

I think there is a caveat too. Impressive/realistic bass transients almost certainly require a large speaker system and large room where the modal response doesn’t smear the lower frequency impulse response.

If a suitably large speaker/room is assessed subjectively and an underpowered amplifier is compared to a suitably powered one then if both sound otherwise accurate in terms of tonality, etc, then the more powerful amplifier may be ascribed as having more ‘slam’.
 
I think what you are describing is the essence of audiophilia. It’s a mindset and a personal, subjective experience, very detached from a formal, correct and measured engineering approach. It’s backed up by the audiophile media and press. The separation from science is often promoted in order to give validation to those who are most invested in the subjective experience.

I’m interested to know what attributes you think an amplifier can possess in order for it to be more musically satisfying to you?
Pure guess, likely distortion or maybe the interaction between the amp and speakers?
 
Pure guess, likely distortion or maybe the interaction between the amp and speakers?
Or maybe another possibility, a far more likely one?
 
I think what you are describing is the essence of audiophilia. It’s a mindset and a personal, subjective experience, very detached from a formal, correct and measured engineering approach. It’s backed up by the audiophile media and press.
And that's exactly why I'm not an 'audiophile'. To think you can hear things that no one else can is borderline mental illness. If it were up to me, I'd put it in the APA's DSM-III. Backed up by the audiophile media and press? Probably is, but most of 'em are glue-sniffing squish-heads. In my opinion, of course.
 
Long story short: if you want truly excellent amplification in all regards (high power, very low distortion and noise, ruler flat frequency response under all loads) for as little money as possible, there's currently nothing better than Hypex and Purifi amps. The technology is already advanced enough, it becomes questionable if and how it can be significantly improved upon in ways that are clearly audible.
 
And that's exactly why I'm not an 'audiophile'. To think you can hear things that no one else can is borderline mental illness. If it were up to me, I'd put it in the APA's DSM-III. Backed up by the audiophile media and press? Probably is, but most of 'em are glue-sniffing squish-heads. In my opinion, of course.
I broadly agree but I think you take a slightly too extreme a view where you don’t account for varying acuity of hearing between individuals and varying desire to learn to hear subtle differences.
 
From reading reviews of the Hypex and Purify amps, it seems that the new class D amps are outperforming the "higher-end" A/B monsters. Is this actually the case?
“Outperforming” an elite AB amp such as ATI siggie, I don’t know. If the FTC standard is kept substantially unchanged, as I understand it, on paper a lot of the D amps will need downwards power rating revisions—regardless of relevance to real world use. An ATI 6000 probably will keep substantially the same ratings.

But the better D amps are load invariant, with lots of power at low noise and distortion, while being cheaper, smaller, and lighter. Whatever spec difference is of no real audible consequence except maybe in an edge case such as directly driving a compression driver, in which case you’d want all the SNR and low gain so as to minimize amplification of upstream noise.
 
And that's exactly why I'm not an 'audiophile'. To think you can hear things that no one else can is borderline mental illness.

It is only January and we already have the 'post of the year.' This needs to be displayed on the ASR site banner!

I am not kidding. This defines what this site is all about. I may have to put this in my signature (with an original poster shout-out). :cool:
 
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It is only January and we already have the 'post of the year.' This needs to be displayed on the ASR site banner!

I am not kidding. This defines what this site is all about... :cool:
I think it’s borderline offensive and doesn’t define what this site is about.

There could be a better way of wording the intended sentiment.
 
There could be a better way of wording the intended sentiment.

No, it finally words the intended sentiment perfectly. No reason to continue. I did not mean to offend. ;)
 
And that's exactly why I'm not an 'audiophile'. To think you can hear things that no one else can is borderline mental illness. If it were up to me, I'd put it in the APA's DSM-III. Backed up by the audiophile media and press? Probably is, but most of 'em are glue-sniffing squish-heads. In my opinion, of course.
I find this harsh. I know what you mean (I think) but I think there are better, more accurate, ways to make the point.

We all hear sounds that are not there - that's how subconscious bias and cognitive dissonance work. We do hear that, it's just our brain filling in what is not actually in the sound wave.

We can learn about that sort of bias and add proper listening controls or simply accept that our ears are unreliable.

If we haven't learned, can't accept or just don't know then why wouldn't we assume that we hear what our brains tell us we hear.
 
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