The missing link for desktop audio

[Chromatischism]

I wasn't sure where to place this thread but this seems like the closest place.

Often times space constraints on the desk dictate smaller speakers than we would like that have limited bass capabilities, so adding a sub is often desirable. Yet I get frustrated that there aren't more options for desktop crossovers for adding a subwoofer to a pair of active speakers. I always end up thinking about plopping a huge AVR on the desk which shouldn't be necessary. In fact I have done this before.

Home theater users have had this capability for many years so it's time the desktop computer market got some love. Here's what my dream device would look like for getting this done. The missing link if you will for desktop computer audio.

To describe it, start with a Denon AVR and:

• Strip out:
  • All of the amplifiers
  • The majority of the I/O
  • All of the surround sound decoding and processing
  • The huge metal chassis
• Leave only:
  • Typical inputs such as optical, coaxial, RCA, HDMI, etc
  • Typical 2-channel analog outputs
  • 2 subwoofer outputs
  • Good enough DAC
  • Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ
  • In a small box the size of a desktop DAC or interface
  • Buttons on the front to change filter profiles for easy switching
  • A volume knob

I think this would be a killer product. We could connect our sub(s) at the PC and use a proper crossover, create FIR filters up to Schroeder or custom curves for the full range and have one of the best loudness compensation systems out there in Dynamic EQ. And it would all be independent of content and your OS. Even if you don't have subs this would still a great product. I think Denon/Sound United should leverage their hardware and Audyssey tech to get into this underserved market. Look at what Nvidia did with the Shield device which turned out to be a killer.

But in the meantime, is MiniDSP our only option? You can use a 2x4 HD which gives you 4 RCA outputs, but you don't get a volume knob and for those less tech inclined there is no auto setup and no controls on the device at all. You could go higher end with the SHD Studio but things get pricey and overkill-ish. It seems like the 2x4 HD is the budget box to beat but I'd like to see more options in this space. Post your thoughts here or ignore my late night ramblings...

 

[bigx5murf]

This is another option

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dsp-lf-low-frequency-dsp-controller--230-520

 

[Kachda]

This is another option

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dsp-lf-low-frequency-dsp-controller--230-520

Good option for sub only but no high pass for mains, volume control etc

 

[nsrexler]

Since subs generally have a built-in low pass filter, all I really need is a compact integrated amp with built-in high-pass filter for the mains. There seem to be vanishingly few of these. The only one I've been able to find is the NAD D 3045, which at $750 is fairly pricey for a desktop amp.

 

[escape2]

Since subs generally have a built-in low pass filter, all I really need is a compact integrated amp with built-in high-pass filter for the mains. There seem to be vanishingly few of these.

Another option would be to use passive high pass filter between your pre-amp and amp, alas, that's not as clean of a solution:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CROSSOVER-Harrison-Labs-PFMOD-tm-High-Pass-HP-1-NEW/190345319838

 

[nsrexler]

Another option would be to use passive high pass filter between your pre-amp and amp, alas, that's not as clean of a solution:

I could use that (or a miniDSP), but now we're talking about 3 different boxes taking up space on my desk instead of just 1 integrated amp.

 

[bennybbbx]

But in the meantime, is MiniDSP our only option? You can use a 2x4 HD which gives you 4 RCA outputs, but you don't get a volume knob and for those less tech inclined there is no auto setup and no controls on the device at all.

there is https://www.thomann.de/de/the_t.racks_dsp_4x4_mini.htm .simular to minidsp but cheaper and fit better to studio monitors. cost only around 85 $. before i see it i want buy a Behringer DCX2496. https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B6H this do same but i see it have no software to control. and it cost around 210$. so i order the tracks dsp.

volume change is only a thing of software or computer keyboard. many keyboards have volume buttons or volume knobs. work on shared device wasapi dsound wav. on Asio work not. i have a keyboard with volume knobs and mute knobs. when choose in DAW wasapi latency is acceptable for realtime play i guess around 15-20 ms and volume control is possible. but need be carefull when a Mix in DAW send more as 0 db in output then it do limit. not that somebody think. "good +4. db show max level and i hear no distortion thats good". when export song there is not limiter in and it sound diffrent.

 

[watchnerd]

Yet I get frustrated that there aren't more options for desktop crossovers for adding a subwoofer to a pair of active speakers.

Why not just use one of the many prosumer subs made by the active monitor manufacturers, made to be used with active monitors, that have high pass crossovers built in?

Like this:

There are tons of models to choose from.

I always end up thinking about plopping a huge AVR on the desk which shouldn't be necessary. In fact I have done this before.

It's not necessary.

You're trying to do it the hard way.

The key is to start thinking with your pro audio hat on, not your home theater hat.

 

[Chromatischism]

We could do that but I still want room correction independent of the OS and I prefer subs from vendors like Rythmik who can provide sub-20 Hz extension.

Do you have an example of a sub that does at least -3 dB @ 20Hz that has those connections?

 

[watchnerd]

We could do that but I still want room correction independent of the OS and I prefer subs from vendors like Rythmik who can provide sub-20 Hz extension.

Do you have an example of a sub that does at least -3 dB @ 20Hz that has those connections?

Yep.

I'm sure there are others, but this is one I know off the top of my head.

https://www.dynaudio.com/professional-audio/core/core-sub#tech-specs

Frequency response (- 6 dB): 13.5 Hz – 200 Hz
Frequency response (+/- 3 dB): 15 Hz – 165 Hz

Also:

https://www.dynaudio.com/professional-audio/subwoofers/18s#tech-specs

 

[Chromatischism]

$4000!

I'll stick with Rythmik.

 

[watchnerd]

$4000!

I'll stick with Rythmik.

The 18S is cheaper.

Only $1800.

But, again, I'm sure there are many more if you look around.

Adam, Eve, Neumann, Genelec, JBL, all should have similarly configured subs at whatever price/bass extension combo fits your budget.

 

[617]

The Kali sub is under $1000 and has 1200W, down to 23hz, and has pretty good integration options. Many crossover options.

If I added a sub I'd either do that or plug a minidsp into the monitor outs of my audio interface.

 

[watchnerd]

If I added a sub I'd either do that or plug a minidsp into the monitor outs of my audio interface.

This fits with how active speakers / pro monitors are designed to work as a system with interfaces.

Trying to treat them like AV surround components is fighting against the dominant system paradigm for DAW monitors.

 

[somebodyelse]

https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/kh-750-dsp
18Hz - 750Hz +/-3dB, DSP for room correction either controlled via iPad app, or the new Windows kit with the MA-1

 

[Chromatischism]

https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/kh-750-dsp
18Hz - 750Hz +/-3dB, DSP for room correction either controlled via iPad app, or the new Windows kit with the MA-1

Looks nice, and the price is better but still a bit high. And while this may help others, I'm not looking for another subwoofer, rather a way to integrate an existing sub into a computer system with room correction independent of the OS. Something like the SHD Studio but without Dirac since that adds so much to the cost of every piece of hardware it's installed on and doesn't offer benefits in this application beyond what you can get with other EQ systems. And the streaming features are not needed, either.

 

[watchnerd]

Looks nice, and the price is better but still a bit high. And while this may help others, I'm not looking for another subwoofer, rather a way to integrate an existing sub into a computer system with room correction independent of the OS. Something like the SHD Studio but without Dirac since that adds so much to the cost of every piece of hardware it's installed on and doesn't offer benefits in this application beyond what you can get with other EQ systems. And the streaming features are not needed, either.

I think you're a special snowflake on this compared to how most people are using active monitors with subs and how the makers expect them to be used.

Also, I don't think Dirac algos are optimized for nearfield.

 

[scrubb]

I just added a Minidsp 2x4HD to my desktop system and love it. The interface app is easy to use and works great.
There's a cheap remote control which allows control of presets, volume, and input selection. REW or similar is required to take measurements and apply correction, but in lieu of REW all the functions (crossover, parametric EQ, delay, levels) can be adjusted in real time by ear.

 

[tehidiot]

Also, I don't think Dirac algos are optimized for nearfield.

https://live.dirac.com/pro-audio/ They do a pro version of it now, so it should be OK.

 

[watchnerd]

https://live.dirac.com/pro-audio/ They do a pro version of it now, so it should be OK.

Good to know!

I like the plugins, but I don't know if that helps @Chromatischism -- I don't think he's using a DAW from what he's written.