And yet somehow I still don’t know or understand what they are singing.gives you this.
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DVDdoug
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After thinking about this more... They MIGHT have dynamically compressed the loudest bass for the digital version. IF that's the case, simply turning up the bass won't fix it because all of the bass would be turned-up.
Although CD has a wider dynamic range than vinyl, there is an absolute digital upper-limit of 0dBFS... You can't just keep making it louder to the point where the stylus jumps out of the groove. They would have had to make the rest of the recording quieter and they may not have wanted to make that compromise, so maybe they made a different compromise.
Although CD has a wider dynamic range than vinyl, there is an absolute digital upper-limit of 0dBFS... You can't just keep making it louder to the point where the stylus jumps out of the groove. They would have had to make the rest of the recording quieter and they may not have wanted to make that compromise, so maybe they made a different compromise.
JeremyFife
Major Contributor
"I wash off the hatred of my enemies and the theft and anger of rich men" ... I rather like that
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So if I understood you, there is the possibility that by keeping the music overall louder they had to compromise deep bass peaks? If you heard both versions would you be inclined to assume that this is the case in this example?
J.M. Noble
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I used to use the Telarc Fennell/Holst Suite No. 1 third movement opening bass drum to test car audio systems when I was an installer in the late 80s through the mid 90s. I once broke the sunroof crank handle in a customer's BMW with that test: it dropped down and never wanted to click back up into place after the almighty bass whack. The customer was naturally quite proud of this and happy with my work.
I've played both of those Holst suites on various saxes and low brass in some very good symphonic bands[1], and they are super fun.
[1] Ryan Anthony and David Richards on trumpet right behind me or to my immediate right, Timothy Weiss behind and/or to my left on trombone, etc.--I got to listen to world class talent a couple of hours a day for years, it gave me a good benchmark for critical listening later in life.
Edit: I worked with Fennell's nephew, who was a database admin on some projects I was involved with, about 15 years ago. I mentioned these recordings to him, of course. It's a wonderfully small world.
I've played both of those Holst suites on various saxes and low brass in some very good symphonic bands[1], and they are super fun.
[1] Ryan Anthony and David Richards on trumpet right behind me or to my immediate right, Timothy Weiss behind and/or to my left on trombone, etc.--I got to listen to world class talent a couple of hours a day for years, it gave me a good benchmark for critical listening later in life.
Edit: I worked with Fennell's nephew, who was a database admin on some projects I was involved with, about 15 years ago. I mentioned these recordings to him, of course. It's a wonderfully small world.
J.M. Noble
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Maybe in CD reissues, but my "vintage" copy that I bought used in the mid/late 80s and still have today sure as hell isn't compressed! It is the apex predator of bass drum whacks, and is one of the few recordings that captures what one of those beasts sounds like in a real hall.
beagleman
Major Contributor
I was going to say, if ANYTHING, Most all classical, especially TELARC CD recordings, are low in level, until the really loud drum parts or what have you.
I have rarely or ever heard any classical that was compressed to any degree, in fact the opposite, I have many recordings you can literally put the volume all the way up on many sections UNTIL the loud parts start.
Doesn't sound acoustic to me. There's an 7' orchestral acoustic bass drum in here:
You need subs to hear it.
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beagleman
Major Contributor
In my experiences, I have heard bass drum such as this live several times, but never heard a home system that conveys how it sounds and feels in a concert hall.
Not a matter of volume or deepness, even with the best subs, but more a matter of Fullness and scale and size.
In person it is just so different feeling/sounding.
In person its just a huge "wave" of bass "feel" that fills the place side to side, and floor to ceiling.
At home, you can for sure get the loudness and deepness, but not the "scale" of a loud bass sound.
Same with thunder or slamming a car door, they have a huge physical presence that moves a LOT of air.
Not a matter of volume or deepness, even with the best subs, but more a matter of Fullness and scale and size.
In person it is just so different feeling/sounding.
In person its just a huge "wave" of bass "feel" that fills the place side to side, and floor to ceiling.
At home, you can for sure get the loudness and deepness, but not the "scale" of a loud bass sound.
Same with thunder or slamming a car door, they have a huge physical presence that moves a LOT of air.
I recall the Telarc version of Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man, with Louis Lane Conducting the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. I had both LP and CD versions. I had to really play the LP loud for the bass drum whacks on this recording to bottom the speakers I had at the time, the IMF RSPM Mark IV. With the CD version, when played back at even moderate levels the bass drum easily bottomed the venerable KEF B139 woofers in the IMFs. I'm sure there was some compression in the LP in order to cut the record. However, if the CD was compressed, I would have hated to subject the IMFs to an uncompressed version! About this time IMF went to a more robust woofer driver for later versions of the Monitor.
dedobot
Senior Member
Dont know classical but pop/rock vinyl records always sounded more "bass-heavy" to me.
The bass drum on this recording is outrageously exaggerated.
I never had that experience in our "audio/video club" (perhaps because knowledge of the people [who shared their knowledge & traded components with each other to see how the same equipment did in different folks homes]) and of the gear in use. Or at home (because, due to the audio/video club), I had gear kit that could handle it.
And yes, we had a good reason for "video" in our clubs name:
That has it. The dreaded Telarc bass drum! Some cartridges could not track it.No, I think it was this Telarc Firebird recording that he was referring to:
beagleman
Major Contributor
Back to the OPs original question.
I listened several times to not only the Youtube versions he posted, but also my CD of the recording and the version on Spotify.
My conclusions.
Youtube, Spotify and my CD sounded VERY similar overall, and frankly doubt I could easily tell them apart. So all VERY similar for sure.
The Youtube version of the Record, was oddly louder in level over the entire length of the Piece compared to the other 3 I listened to which were all extremely close in overall loudness.
The bass drum was not really all that different, when accounting for volume level of the entire work and "matching" it to the CD or Spotify or Youtube version.
I am using 2 subs which are decent to mid 20s so decent bass in all versions.
I just feel the vinyl sounded more congested and compressed, and louder overall. Not sure the reason, but not even really "Sure" the bass drum was all that different, but more the overall volume made it seem so unless adjusted to match the reference of the actual CD or spotify etc.
Having owned Telarc CDs and Vinyl, I found it odd the vinyl sounded a bit "odd" or "Heavy and loud" sounding, so "maybe" more transfer related or something in the chain of Cart or preamp was altering it.
Again my CD, Spotify and the Youtube CD version were close enough to say "Pretty much identical" The vinyl was the odd one out, but should be similar also...??
I listened several times to not only the Youtube versions he posted, but also my CD of the recording and the version on Spotify.
My conclusions.
Youtube, Spotify and my CD sounded VERY similar overall, and frankly doubt I could easily tell them apart. So all VERY similar for sure.
The Youtube version of the Record, was oddly louder in level over the entire length of the Piece compared to the other 3 I listened to which were all extremely close in overall loudness.
The bass drum was not really all that different, when accounting for volume level of the entire work and "matching" it to the CD or Spotify or Youtube version.
I am using 2 subs which are decent to mid 20s so decent bass in all versions.
I just feel the vinyl sounded more congested and compressed, and louder overall. Not sure the reason, but not even really "Sure" the bass drum was all that different, but more the overall volume made it seem so unless adjusted to match the reference of the actual CD or spotify etc.
Having owned Telarc CDs and Vinyl, I found it odd the vinyl sounded a bit "odd" or "Heavy and loud" sounding, so "maybe" more transfer related or something in the chain of Cart or preamp was altering it.
Again my CD, Spotify and the Youtube CD version were close enough to say "Pretty much identical" The vinyl was the odd one out, but should be similar also...??
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