T+A speakers and their directivity

[dogmamann]

I recently came across these speakers website:
Normally most hifi speakers website don’t talk much about their directivity, but here I see they are talking about constant directivity through their waveguide. But I see their woofer and midranges not flush to the baffles. Can it still produce a good directivity with the non flush midranges?

Criterion S 2000 CTL Floor-standing speaker

www.ta-hifi.de

 

[voodooless]

There is a bit of info here: https://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/high-end/t-a-criterion-s-2000-ctl/seite-5.html

No off-axis measurements though. Looks like the midrange also has a bit of a waveguide. Generally this should not pose a problem and may even be beneficial.

 

[thewas]

There is a bit of info here: https://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/high-end/t-a-criterion-s-2000-ctl/seite-5.html

No off-axis measurements though. Looks like the midrange also has a bit of a waveguide. Generally this should not pose a problem and may even be beneficial.

0°, 15° and 30° are shown:

 

[voodooless]

0°, 15° and 30° are shown:

Ah, didn't catch that. That hole just past 10 kHz certainly is curious. Also there is some widening between 3 and 4 kHz.

 

[thewas]

Ah, didn't catch that. That hole just past 10 kHz certainly is curious. Also there is some widening between 3 and 4 kHz.

Yes, all the measurements of the last generations of T+A loudspeakers I have seen show nothing special.

 

[dogmamann]

Yes, all the measurements of the last generations of T+A loudspeakers I have seen show nothing special.

I guess we can then trust ifidelity more than audio. Audio magazine and stereoplay should be more of a marketing thing.

I saw the graph of ifidelity for the canton reference 7k before buying it and they sounded very flat like they say,

This is the graph of TA

 

[thewas]

The Canton Reference 7K has also been measured (well) by Stereophile

Canton Reference 7K loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Canton Reference 7K's frequency response in the farfield. My reference axis for the measurements was level with the center of the midrange unit, which is 36" from the floor, the height of my...

www.stereophile.com

 

[dogmamann]

The Canton Reference 7K has also been measured (well) by Stereophile

Canton Reference 7K loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Canton Reference 7K's frequency response in the farfield. My reference axis for the measurements was level with the center of the midrange unit, which is 36" from the floor, the height of my...

www.stereophile.com

The whole thread here is based on some measurements from audio/stereoplay. According to the thread, it’s bad for its price!! That thread looks like a war place, dominated by two folks who has not seen that speaker vs some guys who really owned them! In my experience despite really loud sound levels, I heard no distortion as they claim. May be it’s not in audible region. Is audio stereoplay less reliable than stereophile ?

 

[thewas]

Is audio stereoplay less reliable than stereophile ?

I don't think that can be said, they just do different kind of measurements.

 

[dogmamann]

I don't think that can be said, they just do different kind of measurements.

Audios measurement of t+a s2000ctl looks very promising. Can you point what is not good here, and what other speaker can we consider which doesn’t have that problem? Ifedelity measurment looks quite different. Whom can we trust?

 

[thewas]

The Audio/Stereoplay frequency response measurents are a bit too smoothed, squished to a small plot and limited to too few angles to really show the directivity. I would use them only as an initial starting point.

 

[Vhond]

Follow mode

 

[dogmamann]

The Audio/Stereoplay frequency response measurents are a bit too smoothed, squished to a small plot and limited to too few angles to really show the directivity. I would use them only as an initial starting point.

I guess the distortion measurements they provide then can be discarded. Even one of th manufacturer here said that, the Klippel measures distortions differently in different rooms.

Post in thread 'Ascend Acoustics Announces New Klippel NFS-Optimized Sierra Towers and Horizon Center'

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-towers-and-horizon-center.39567/post-1398700

Guess the guys in Ref 7K went way too much with those distortion figures!

 

[voodooless]

I guess the distortion measurements they provide then can be discarded. Even one of th manufacturer here said that, the Klippel measures distortions differently in different rooms.

You can still compare similar plots from the same source. In any case, it shows > 10% THD at 100dB below 100 Hz. That is quite a lot, but not necessarily audible. Still 3% at 200 Hz, dropping below 1% after roughly 300 Hz.

 

[dogmamann]

You can still compare similar plots from the same source. In any case, it shows > 10% THD at 100dB below 100 Hz. That is quite a lot, but not necessarily audible. Still 3% at 200 Hz, dropping below 1% after roughly 300 Hz.

I guess KEFs or Revels too have similar numbers when it comes to bass area. But the real issue they were projecting was upper mid distortion which I couldn’t hear in my listening room.

 

[voodooless]

I guess KEFs or Revels too have similar numbers when it comes to bass area. But the real issue they were projecting was upper mid distortion which I couldn’t hear in my listening room.

There isn't any except for the 500 Hz bump. I doubt any of that is audible. But that isn't exactly upper midrange, is it There is a slight droop in the response between 1 and 3 kHz. Maybe that's what they are referring to. That is also the area where the directivity narrows a bit.

 

[thewas]

I guess the distortion measurements they provide then can be discarded. Even one of th manufacturer here said that, the Klippel measures distortions differently in different rooms.

Post in thread 'Ascend Acoustics Announces New Klippel NFS-Optimized Sierra Towers and Horizon Center'

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-towers-and-horizon-center.39567/post-1398700

Guess the guys in Ref 7K went way too much with those distortion figures!

The problem are not the harmonic distortion measurents but their interpretation regarding audibility which often gets overestimated, in my experience multitone distortion measurents (which often reach wide range values in the order of 10%) correlate usually better.

 

[dogmamann]

The problem are not the harmonic distortion measurents but their interpretation regarding audibility which often gets overestimated, in my experience multitone distortion measurents (which often reach wide range values in the order of 10%) correlate usually better.

My reference 7k was a loaner for sometime and after I gave back, I kept thinking there should be something better that I can buy under 5000 euros. There were lot of impressive speakers on paper. I went on a listening test parade and nothing impressed me as much as the 7k did under 5000 euros in terms of fine nuances and huge soundstage. I liked the Kef reference metas but still the soundstage width is relatively narrow, even here. Reference Metas are excellent speakers only limited by the narrow dispersion imo. If that’s fine, there is nothing better than it. But again, for a person who wants a wider soundstage that’s again not the speaker

 

[dogmamann]

Finally I got a chance to listen to the T+As yesterday. Even in the store with reflective glass all around, it sounded quite nice. What really surprised me on the 2200ctl is how low it could go. Sounded like a real subwoofer was in the room. Also even when listening off axis the sound was very even. I think this is a brand which is very much overlooked everywhere. Don’t know how it measures. Also listened to 2000s,they sound similar in tone but considerably less bass but bass is very smoothly rolled off. The one I could afford is 2100 wasn’t unfortunately not in store from what I heard, having listened to speakers with good measurements, these should be in the same league.

 

[BenB]

Looks like the midwoofer and the tweeter are more than a wavelength apart at the crossover frequency (at least for the s2000). XO specd at 2000 hz, and my estimate of separation at 7.5 or 8 inches. I'm not sure why they didn't squeeze them a bit closer together. Even with the waveguides there is substantial baffle space betwee them. That's going to lead to some irregularity in the midrange dispersion.