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SVS SB 1000 Pro vs SVS SB 2000 non-Pro

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marX

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The volume control on the sub only controls the sub mix. it will not affect the out to the amp from the sub. Those are just pass-through.

You should set the amp to not use its volume control. Use the "fixed inputs" if you have those or just turn the volume up to the max you would want. Then mix the sub in with its volume control. Then use the topping for master volume.

I assume you want to control the volume on your Topping?
If I use the headphones-out port of the Topping DAC (which has volume control), it has worse SINAD and distorsion (IIRC). The line-out has 100+ SINAD but has no volume control. So, have to control volume from the source (laptop/raspberry pi) but it can lead to accidents. So, I should use the DAC headphones-out port even though it has poor SINAD?
 

phoenixdogfan

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Without question you need some kind of DSP to tame the room nodes either of those two subs will excite. I just question that you need it provided within the Sub. That's why I own two OG SB 2000's and use Dirac Dlbc to set high/low pass and adjust for the room. Unless you are still spinning silver or vinyl disks and feeding it straigt to your electronics, I think you're always better off using the superior DSP systems available for your PC (Dirac, Audiolense, aCCourate).

Those systems will provide a superior result and IMHO the SB 2000 (Original) is the very best value in subs today. SVS has a very liberal exchange policy, btw.
 

radix

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If I use the headphones-out port of the Topping DAC (which has volume control), it has worse SINAD and distorsion (IIRC). The line-out has 100+ SINAD but has no volume control. So, have to control volume from the source (laptop/raspberry pi) but it can lead to accidents. So, I should use the DAC headphones-out port even though it has poor SINAD?

I don't think you have a choice. You need to use a variable output that drives both the sub and the amp.

I have not used the NX4 and cannot find its manual. I do knot know if there's a way to have the volume control adjust the line out.

I think the low gain, max volume of the headphone out is still 104dB or something like that. Anything over 90 or so is not audible.
 

radix

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If you have the SB-1000 Pro, you can use the speaker-level inputs. This would let you use the line out and the amp's volume control. I've not used it like this before, but it is an option.

Screenshot 2023-10-25 at 12.59.36 PM.png
 

radix

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Also, I'm not clear which sub you kept. If it's the SB-2000 (non-Pro), it does not have speaker-level inputs. Also, it has a fixed 80Hz crossover for the LINE OUT:

Line Level Outputs These outputs are used in 2-channel applications to high pass the signal being sent to the loudspeaker amplifier. The line level outputs feature a fixed 80 Hz 12 dB/octave high pass filter.

The newer SVS do not have a built-in crossover on the LINE OUT.

If you do not want the 80 Hz filter, you need to use Y cables instead of the SB-2000's LINE OUT. Really, you probably want it to save your mains from handling the LF.
 
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marX

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Also, I'm not clear which sub you kept. If it's the SB-2000 (non-Pro), it does not have speaker-level inputs. Also, it has a fixed 80Hz crossover for the LINE OUT:



The newer SVS do not have a built-in crossover on the LINE OUT.

If you do not want the 80 Hz filter, you need to use Y cables instead of the SB-2000's LINE OUT. Really, you probably want it to save your mains from handling the LF.
I have the SVS SB 1000 Pro.

Line Level Connection – Stereo Receiver or Preamplifier Left/Right Channels Both Left and Right inputs on your SB-1000 Pro can be used in a two-channel stereo application with a stereo preamplifier that has Left and Right line level outputs. Connect the left and right outputs of your preamplifier to the left and right line level inputs of the SB-1000 Pro using RCA interconnects.
Enable and adjust the on-board low pass filter of the SB-1000 Pro for a smooth blend with the main speakers.
So, it does filter the line-out and I can feel it. I tried various cut-off frequencies and 80hz worked the best. If I try 60 hz, the sub doesn't get to play a lot. With 80hz, there is a sizeable portion of music gets routed to the sub.

Regarding the NX4 DSD, the headphone out low-gain is like 2V and 104 SINAD. With high gain, Amir recommends turning the volume down a little to get 5V output and 104 SINAD.
EDIT:
The output impedance is 0.9 Ohm and BTW the line-out RCA cable is like 4.5 metres long and the inner core resistance is 0.65 Ohm and the outer is like 0.3 Ohm.
Without question you need some kind of DSP to tame the room nodes either of those two subs will excite. I just question that you need it provided within the Sub. That's why I own two OG SB 2000's and use Dirac Dlbc to set high/low pass and adjust for the room. Unless you are still spinning silver or vinyl disks and feeding it straigt to your electronics, I think you're always better off using the superior DSP systems available for your PC (Dirac, Audiolense, aCCourate).

Those systems will provide a superior result and IMHO the SB 2000 (Original) is the very best value in subs today. SVS has a very liberal exchange policy, btw.
There are a lot of options! PB 1000 Pro vs the SB 2000 vs SB 2000 Pro vs PB 2000 Pro.
 

radix

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I have the SVS SB 1000 Pro.



So, it does filter the line-out and I can feel it. I tried various cut-off frequencies and 80hz worked the best. If I try 60 hz, the sub doesn't get to play a lot. With 80hz, there is a sizeable portion of music gets routed to the sub.

Regarding the NX4 DSD, the headphone out low-gain is like 2V and 104 SINAD. With high gain, Amir recommends turning the volume down a little to get 5V output and 104 SINAD.
EDIT:
The output impedance is 0.9 Ohm and BTW the line-out RCA cable is like 4.5 metres long and the inner core resistance is 0.65 Ohm and the outer is like 0.3 Ohm.

There are a lot of options! PB 1000 Pro vs the SB 2000 vs SB 2000 Pro vs PB 2000 Pro.

I am pretty sure that the SB-1000 Pro does not high-pass filter the LINE OUT. The sub's low pass filter frequency only affects the sub.

What SVS means in their manual is that you would set the sub's cross over to where your speakers have their natural roll-off so the speakers and sub have a matching -3 dB point. This is where a measurement mic really helps with the sub integration. Without the mic, you need to lookup your speakers measurements (I forget what you have, are they reviewed here or Erin or audiophile?) and ballpark the match. What I then do is turn the sub volume all the way down, play something with decent bass (there's some spotify playlists for this, if you need one), then slowly turn up the sub while sitting in my spot until I definitely hear the sub in the mix. Then turn it down a few dB until it is not clearly in the mix. I'm sure SVS has recommendations too. This is where the BT app really helps, as you don't need to keep running across the room.

For unbalanced inputs, I think the low gain 2V output is what you want when driving your amp and sub. I would try it this way first with the amp's volume turned up to a high level.

If that does not work out for you, you could do the speaker-level input to the sub and use the amp's volume control.
 

radix

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If you don't have a mic, SVS has some recommendations for various speakers. From p. 10 of the manual

For finer tuning, the SVS Subwoofer Matching Tool on our website provides the recommended low pass filter frequency and slope setting for most loudspeakers on the market. Just choose your brand and model of speakers from the menus and Merlin does the rest. It’s available 24/7, 365 at https://www.svsound.com/pages/merlin. Our SVS Sound Experts are also standing by to help with any connection or control questions you have about any of the controls or settings.
 
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marX

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If you don't have a mic, SVS has some recommendations for various speakers. From p. 10 of the manual
Their 'Merlin' recommends 2000 or 3000 series to match the speakers I have :p

And yeah here its suggestion

AV Receiver / Processor:​

Recommended Speaker/Subwoofer Crossover Frequency (Hz)80 Hz

Stereo Pre-Amplifier or Receiver:​

Recommended Low Pass Filter Frequency Setting (Hz)60 Hz
Recommended Low Pass Filter Slope (dB/octave)12 dB/octave
 
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marX

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I am pretty sure that the SB-1000 Pro does not high-pass filter the LINE OUT. The sub's low pass filter frequency only affects the sub.

What SVS means in their manual is that you would set the sub's cross over to where your speakers have their natural roll-off so the speakers and sub have a matching -3 dB point. This is where a measurement mic really helps with the sub integration. Without the mic, you need to lookup your speakers measurements (I forget what you have, are they reviewed here or Erin or audiophile?) and ballpark the match. What I then do is turn the sub volume all the way down, play something with decent bass (there's some spotify playlists for this, if you need one), then slowly turn up the sub while sitting in my spot until I definitely hear the sub in the mix. Then turn it down a few dB until it is not clearly in the mix. I'm sure SVS has recommendations too. This is where the BT app really helps, as you don't need to keep running across the room.

For unbalanced inputs, I think the low gain 2V output is what you want when driving your amp and sub. I would try it this way first with the amp's volume turned up to a high level.

If that does not work out for you, you could do the speaker-level input to the sub and use the amp's volume control.
You are right. I just contacted their technical support which said the same thing.
But he said it should be okay to leave it full range and have the sub at 70hz with 12db slop (for the Revel M16).
 

radix

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You are right. I just contacted their technical support which said the same thing.
But he said it should be okay to leave it full range and have the sub at 70hz with 12db slop (for the Revel M16).
Yeah, 70 Hz looks OK from the graphs in Amir's review.


Between the 1000 and 2000, it's really a question of how loud and how low you want to go. The 2000 is maybe 4-6 dB louder at the low bass. But if you don't really crank it super loud, you'll likely not notice the difference.
 

dominikz

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You are right. I just contacted their technical support which said the same thing.
But he said it should be okay to leave it full range and have the sub at 70hz with 12db slop (for the Revel M16).
In case it helps, I had to set the low-pass on SVS SB-1000 to ~55Hz to get a smooth crossover without a high-pass on the Revel M16.
I still of course needed to use PEQ to knock down bass resonances.
 

Pareto Pragmatic

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The 2000 is maybe 4-6 dB louder at the low bass.

In the case of the sb-1000 pro set up I mentioned above, it is running at -30dB with my AVR, but the AVR boosts the sub by 12dB, so -18dB. Crossed over at 80. Add +3dB to that, and it WILL punch in the chest, hard. So I don't think this is (was) an issue of power so much as set up and tuning.

Get more power, sure. But set up is critical to get the sound desired, no matter how many watts are on tap. When I first put the SVS into my system, it was very good. When I tuned it, and got the tuning right, it was a revelation!
 
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marX

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The SB 2000 Pro driver has a substantially better drive structure and magnet arrangement compared to the 1000 series (saw it in a video).

BTW, I just did some frequency sweep up to 100hz, and now my ears are bleeding :p

Here are some observations (used an SPL app on my phone).

20hz 49db can feel it in my ears but way less intensity

25hz 66db more intensity

30hz 70 db way more sound

35hz 66db less sound than before but still noticeable

40hz 67db same

45hz 71db more intense - windows rattling

50hz 78db loud - furniture vibrating

55hz 80db loud!!!

60hz 75db

65hz 70db

70hz 74db

80hz 85db LOUD!!!!

85hz 71 db

90hz 68db

95hz 81db

100hz 78db
 
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radix

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I have the SVS-2000 Pro for my HT (I like the small size). It's at -18 dB, then corrected by the Denon AVR. It puts out plenty of power then I need when paired with KEF R3/R2c. I let the Denon do all the crossover in this case.
 
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marX

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What about REL HT 1205 MKII?

Seems like it's a bit cheaper than the 2000 Pro?
 

Willem

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With the SVS Pro series you are effectively paying quite a bit more for three internal filters. Personally I think such filtering is better done externally. That is why I bought an SB2000 classic. Also, two smaller subwoofers are a lot beter than one big one in dealing with room modes. So my suggestion would be two SB1000s lust external equalization. Instead of the SB1000s you could also consider the KEF Kube series. They score rather better in the ASR list of subwoofer performance, but much depends on local pricing, of course. In the Netherlands they are very competitive.
 
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marX

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With the SVS Pro series you are effectively paying quite a bit more for three internal filters. Personally I think such filtering is better done externally. That is why I bought an SB2000 classic. Also, two smaller subwoofers are a lot beter than one big one in dealing with room modes. So my suggestion would be two SB1000s lust external equalization. Instead of the SB1000s you could also consider the KEF Kube series. They score rather better in the ASR list of subwoofer performance, but much depends on local pricing, of course. In the Netherlands they are very competitive.
I agree with you completely regarding the DSP.
That's why I pointed out that the REL model (afaik, does not have a DSP).

KEFs can be cheaper in the UK (being a UK-based company) and the possibility of finding an open box or display model is high. I can easily get two KEF open-box return models of maybe the KEF Kube 10b or even the 12b.

I'll be having some discussions with the various hifi dealers in my area to find such deals. If not, I will be getting the REL model I mentioned above. OR, I'll try the older SB 2000 non-pro model and see how it performs (does not have a DSP AFAIK).

To everyone, I have bought the UMIK-1 separately and looking for a DSP with a crossover (stereo out + 2 separate sub-out = 4 channels). Is miniDSP the only option?
I was looking at the DDRC 24 with Dirac, it's not cheap but it's not that expensive either. Are there any other alternatives out there with the crossover and parametric eq options??
I mean I can do the REW with my laptop and find the eq corrections and then do that in the said crossover+dsp box.

Also, I tried Moode and Volumio on my Raspberry Pi 4 but the Spotify connect disconnects after playing like 5 seconds or so and won't connect again. Anyone having this issue? Is there any distro out there that I can get the Spotify play natively in their own app?
Any idea about LibreElec?
 
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marX

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Also, would it be worthwhile to wait for the Black Friday deals? I mean its like one month away now.
 

radix

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I was looking at the DDRC 24 with Dirac, it's not cheap but it's not that expensive either. Are there any other alternatives out there with the crossover and parametric eq options??

The DDRC24 is a good choice for the price range. DIRAC is not too hard to use, gives good results.

Another option is the minidsp 2x4HD, which is the same hardware without the DIRAC license. You would need to devise the filters on your own with REW. Not automated, a lot more work for the beginner.

There are many threads on using the DDRC24 and DIRAC on ASR.
 
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