Suggestions to replace or upgrade my Laptop/Mac running Jriver and external DACs.

[Baldo]

I have a couple of systems for my audiophile music listening.

They are a laptop / Mac both running Jriver Media Center and connected to external DACs. The laptop is connected to a Focusrite Scarlet DAC and the Mac is connected to an Apogee Duet. In each case the analogue output is then sent to the pre amps etc.

The FLAC files are stored in duplicate on a couple of USB hard drives, (I have not gone down the NAS Route yet). So the laptop and the Mac each have their own external USB hard drive that the FLAC files are read from.

I am thinking about replacing the front end with perhaps a streamer, a couple of Hi end DACs and perhaps linear power supplies for the DAC and Streamer.

I was thinking of spending about €1,000 for the streamer and a similar amount for the DAC. And building a DIY Linear Power supply.

I would welcome some suggestions on things to look at. I was thinking maybe a the RME DAC but I am open to suggestions.

Thanks for your help and input on this.

 

[voodooless]

To better aid your quest it would be useful to know where you want to use the audio equipment. Your talking about multiple DACs? Or only one?

Also: what’s wrong with the current setup? What problem are you trying to solve? Would the streamer need to serve the files on the USB drives? Why a separate DAC? How do you want to control the whole things?

So there are quite a few open questions here.

 

[just1n]

Foobar for Mac?

 

[Baldo]

Hey Voodooless, thanks for your reply and questions.

I have two systems for music listening.

Sys 1 is the main system and was based around my Meridian 507 CD player which is not used any more since the CDs were ripepd on to hard drive. The amps are all Cyrus - Pre, + two mono block power amps, all with their own PSX-R power supplies, so that is six boxes! They feed a couple of B&W 804 Speakers. The source for this system, is a Mac running Jriver and feeding an Apogee Studio DAC. I use to use this DAC for music production but now its really just for music playback.

Sys 2 is more for AV in the lounge and is centered around a Cyrus AV 5 feeding a center speaker power amp, two monoblocks for the front left and right (plus PSX-R powersupplies for the monoblocks) and one Cyrus stereo power amp feeding the rear speakers. I also have a B&W PS2 Sub Woofer. The front speakers are B&W CM 9 s2, as is the center speaker. The music source for this system is a laptop runnign Jriver and feeding a Focurite Scarlet USB DAC.


Sys 2 really was built for AV ie movies but the it is also great as a music listening system as well.

As far as problems tha tI am trying to solve, None really. Both systems are great and do a fien job. I just have the upgrade bug and would like to improve what I have. The amps and speakers are all doing a great job. I just thought that maybe it would be good to upgrade to some more recent technology. This has been a lifelong hobby and there is no destination as such.

I am also in the process of adding some acoustic treatment to one of my rooms. The other other room already has some acoustic treatment and sounds great.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Baldo]

I am just thinking of getting one streamer and one DAC to replace either the Mac + Apogee Duet or to replace the laptop / Focusrite Scartlet.

 

[Baldo]

"what’s wrong with the current setup? "
Nothing is really wrong with the current set up. I just feel like upgrading, have not done it for several many years in fact.

What problem are you trying to solve?
There may be digital noise coming into the audio signal. I won't know if I can get something better until I have have some thing better. You never know how good the next things is until you try the next thing and then there is no going back. Cassettes were fine until CDs came along, and then CDs were fine until I could have my whole collection on a HDD and put together several hour long playlists on my laptop. I am sure you get what I am saying. BTW, my current Pre/Power/PSXR are several decades old and STILL sound beautiful. Love my Amps. My main B&W speakers are almost 20 years old and I STILL love them.

Would the streamer need to serve the files on the USB drives?
Yes, it Must be able to see and read my current music library. I am NOT wanting to replace those with a Tidal Subscription. To read my own Flac files is a must.

Why a separate DAC?
I like to have things separated. One box does just one job and it does it exceptionally well. It also enables me to upgrade just that one box at a time. I loved going down the Pre/Power amp route instead of integrated amp. I was then able to add clean power supplies for even better sound. So a separate DAC is what I would like.


How do you want to control the whole things?
some kind of screen would be great. Dont want to go down the app on your phone route. I spend far too much time looking at tiny screen any way. I might even get a dedicated 17 inch screen with some kind of wireless keyboard.
I really prefer to look at large screens with a keyboard and not use touch screens. Old age means my fingers are not as tiny as they use to be!!!!

 

[Timcognito]

Maybe save some time with an all in one with DSP. miniDSP SHD or SHD Power or Lyngdorf Audio TDAI‑1120.

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - miniDSP SHD Power Integrated Amplifier-DAC

www.soundstagehifi.com

 

[Baldo]

Thanks for the recommendation Tim but no thanks. I am clear that I stay away from "all in one" solutions. But thanks for the input.

 

[mags65]

1. Mac Mini 8/256 w/suitable external SSD for FLAC
2. Roon lifetime subscription
3. 2x WiiM Pro Plus, one for each system
4. iPad, screen size to your liking

…and you’re all set. If you must have “separates”, then go for 2x WiiM Pro and 2x DACs to taste and liking.

 

[Timcognito]

1. Mac Mini 8/256 w/suitable external SSD for FLAC
2. Roon lifetime subscription
3. 2x WiiM Pro Plus, one for each system
4. iPad, screen size to your liking

…and you’re all set. If you must have “separates”, then go for 2x WiiM Pro and 2x DACs to taste and liking.

Nice list. Thanks for the polite reply above @Baldo and my polite retort is you are missing DSP to correct any room deficiencies.With Roon one gets DSP and many other features and WiiM Pro Plus has a simple DSP. minidsp has many well thought out component solutions, check them out on their site and in the Review Index above. minidsp.com

 

[Baldo]

Thanks @mags65, Can I ask, why an SSD for the Flac files. I am using 5TB 2.5" USB drives at the moment and they are fine for Audio. I mean do we really need to extra bandwidth and/or speed benefits that SSDs offer? Maybe I am wrong, happy ot be corrected and learn.

I am VERY cautious about any kind of subscription service, lifetime or otherwise. ONly the other day I was on my spotify account preparing some music for a meditation that I was hosting at a local Yoga Studio. I wanted one particular track which I had used before and was in one of my playlists. Yet when I tried to play it, it said "No longer Available"!!! WTF not? This is what I mean by subscription services that decide to remove tracks from your library.

I have just taken a tidal subscription so that I can get hold of Hi Res (ie great than 44.1K files). Lets see how that goes.

When it comes to Audiophile music listening, I want to just LISTEN to music and not spend too much time faffing about with tweaking all the time and looking for new gear. Once I have a decent system that I love, that will be it until several years later.

This morning I spent an hour or so starting, restarting my Mac which kept crashing. It seems that the culprit was a defective hard drive. I am so glad that I have my drives in triplicate.

I will take a look at the WiiM Pro Plus together with a suitable ipad type of screen.

Regarding DSP, I have not really looked into that. I am in the process of building some acoustic panels for the lounge, took delivery of my rockwool yesterday in fact. I have build them before and they had a wonderful effect on the room acoustics.

Will take a look at mindsp.com, thank for the recommendation.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Hey Voodooless, thanks for your reply and questions.

I have two systems for music listening.

Sys 1 is the main system and was based around my Meridian 507 CD player which is not used any more since the CDs were ripepd on to hard drive. The amps are all Cyrus - Pre, + two mono block power amps, all with their own PSX-R power supplies, so that is six boxes! They feed a couple of B&W 804 Speakers. The source for this system, is a Mac running Jriver and feeding an Apogee Studio DAC. I use to use this DAC for music production but now its really just for music playback.

Sys 2 is more for AV in the lounge and is centered around a Cyrus AV 5 feeding a center speaker power amp, two monoblocks for the front left and right (plus PSX-R powersupplies for the monoblocks) and one Cyrus stereo power amp feeding the rear speakers. I also have a B&W PS2 Sub Woofer. The front speakers are B&W CM 9 s2, as is the center speaker. The music source for this system is a laptop runnign Jriver and feeding a Focurite Scarlet USB DAC.


Sys 2 really was built for AV ie movies but the it is also great as a music listening system as well.

As far as problems tha tI am trying to solve, None really. Both systems are great and do a fien job. I just have the upgrade bug and would like to improve what I have. The amps and speakers are all doing a great job. I just thought that maybe it would be good to upgrade to some more recent technology. This has been a lifelong hobby and there is no destination as such.

I am also in the process of adding some acoustic treatment to one of my rooms. The other other room already has some acoustic treatment and sounds great.

Hope that makes sense.

You will not be able to improve sonically on what you have with any new hardware. Perhaps an expensive streamer would provide a cool looking, streamlined interface, if that's what you're after. If you want to improve the sonics, you should consider a DSP which will run on the MAC, which would be Dirac, preferably DLBC, since neither Accourate nor Audiolense are supported well if at all on Macs. Also since you are a Mac user, you could consider Bacch4Mac which is a DSP program that reduces crosstalk distortions in two channel audio reproduction.

 

[Baldo]

You will not be able to improve sonically on what you have with any new hardware. Perhaps an expensive streamer would provide a cool looking, streamlined interface, if that's what you're after. If you want to improve the sonics, you should consider a DSP which will run on the MAC, which would be Dirac, preferably DLBC, since neither Accourate nor Audiolense are supported well if at all on Macs. Also since you are a Mac user, you could consider Bacch4Mac which is a DSP program that reduces crosstalk distortions in two channel audio reproduction.

thanks for the reply.

I have a Mac AND a Laptop. I was thinking of replacing the Mac with a dedicated "music machine". That is, streamer to read the flac files and then a separate DAC. I have my eyes on the RME DAC.

I will certainly take a look at a DSP. But I am a bit behind on all the tech. I went from CDs to CD rips and FLAC with an external DAC (Apogee Duet and Focus Rite Scarlett).

Thanks for the recommendations, will take a look. Seems that I will have a bit of learning and catching up to do before I part with my €€€€.

 

[mags65]

Thanks @mags65, Can I ask, why an SSD for the Flac files. I am using 5TB 2.5" USB drives at the moment and they are fine for Audio. I mean do we really need to extra bandwidth and/or speed benefits that SSDs offer? Maybe I am wrong, happy ot be corrected and learn.

I use an SSD for two reasons: size (tiny) and noise (zero). I too started with an external 2.5" HDD USB, but the whine from the HDD was extremely annoying. Check out the Samsung T7, for instance, for small form factor. I use one of these with a 15cm lead to the Mac Mini. The combination of Mac Mini and SSD is noiseless and can be placed anywhere (as long as you can hook it up to your router by cable - wireless also works, but can be prone to dropouts etc. Best then to avoid for peace of mind).

I am VERY cautious about any kind of subscription service, lifetime or otherwise. ONly the other day I was on my spotify account preparing some music for a meditation that I was hosting at a local Yoga Studio. I wanted one particular track which I had used before and was in one of my playlists. Yet when I tried to play it, it said "No longer Available"!!! WTF not? This is what I mean by subscription services that decide to remove tracks from your library.

I have just taken a tidal subscription so that I can get hold of Hi Res (ie great than 44.1K files). Lets see how that goes.

If you want to combine your own files as well as subscription services, there is really no other route out there than Roon. I started in the exact same position some years back, and have gone from Squeezebox through Sonos to Roon (with testing of others like Bluesound Node and Eversolo DMP A6 in between). The seamless functionality provided by Roon in combining local files and streaming services is unprecedented. Easy to build playlists; extremely flexible to change/add/adapt the queue when you are playing music; great way of discovering other artists by way of recommendations and links. Hands down the best user interface available for music replay.

I will take a look at the WiiM Pro Plus together with a suitable ipad type of screen.

Note that with an iPad you can get extremely close to your initital requirement of screen w/keyboard - just use a Magic Keyboard and Mouse, and you're there. Of course there are cheaper solutions, but staying in the Apple ecosystem makes integration easier. Also, this gives you full flex in terms of usability/movability of the pad, if wanted/needed.

Regarding DSP, I have not really looked into that. I am in the process of building some acoustic panels for the lounge, took delivery of my rockwool yesterday in fact. I have build them before and they had a wonderful effect on the room acoustics

I had never dabbled in DSP prior to getting Roon, but am finding it a relative breeze after reading up on the subject here and using a very cheap approach so far (the HouseCurve app on ipad/iphone to generate test tones through Roon, and creating convolver filters to attempt to straighten out things below 450Hz). Fantastic payback for little effort, while learning a lot about the properties of sound reproduction on the way.

 

[Baldo]

I use an SSD for two reasons: size (tiny) and noise (zero). I too started with an external 2.5" HDD USB, but the whine from the HDD was extremely annoying. Check out the Samsung T7, for instance, for small form factor. I use one of these with a 15cm lead to the Mac Mini. The combination of Mac Mini and SSD is noiseless and can be placed anywhere (as long as you can hook it up to your router by cable - wireless also works, but can be prone to dropouts etc. Best then to avoid for peace of mind).

I took a look at the Samsung T7, at the moment I think that the cost will be prevent me from going down this route, for Now. As prices come down of SSDs I think that its certainly worth considering. The whine of a 2.5"USB does not bother me, I think either the disks are too far away from the listening position or my old age means that my ears can't hear the high Freqs!!! Thanks for suggestion though. I don't do wireless for my Audiophile music. I have no issues with using hard wired cables. Hate the drops outs and limitations of wireless.

If you want to combine your own files as well as subscription services, there is really no other route out there than Roon. I started in the exact same position some years back, and have gone from Squeezebox through Sonos to Roon (with testing of others like Bluesound Node and Eversolo DMP A6 in between). The seamless functionality provided by Roon in combining local files and streaming services is unprecedented. Easy to build playlists; extremely flexible to change/add/adapt the queue when you are playing music; great way of discovering other artists by way of recommendations and links. Hands down the best user interface available for music replay.

At the moment I use Jriver Media Centre and just spent a huge amount of time sorting out my music database, getting a lot of the tags sorted and arranged in a way so that I can actually find the music I want easily. I do miss looking at my large CD shelf and seeing all my music there and just picking what I wanted to listen to. Of course playtime was limited to an hour or so but now I have playlists that are 14 hours long.

I have heard about Roon and it seems to be an alternative to Jriver MC. You certainly make a good argument for it. If I can take all of my playlists from Jriver and all the tags and the way the files are arranged into Roon then that would make it an even stronger reason to jump ship. Discovering new music would be great. At the moment I have a Spotify Sub just for that purpose and I also ocassionally update my Apple Music Sub just so that I can down load the music that I want and discover some new music. I do hate Spotify and do not wish to let go of control of my music media files.

I dont have to stay within the Apple Eco Sys. In fact I have both Apple and Windows spread over 3 devices.

I had never dabbled in DSP prior to getting Roon, but am finding it a relative breeze after reading up on the subject here and using a very cheap approach so far (the HouseCurve app on ipad/iphone to generate test tones through Roon, and creating convolver filters to attempt to straighten out things below 450Hz). Fantastic payback for little effort, while learning a lot about the properties of sound reproduction on the way.

Ok, noted. Will take a look at some point in the future. I have alot to learn an dbe getting on with for now. I must not loose sight of WHY I am doing this. And it is to enjoy listening to great music and not jsut building stuff and buying gear for the sake of biulding stuff and buying gear. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks again for your detailed and very informative response. Its also great to hear abaout your journey, seems like you are just a few steps a head of me.

 

[mags65]

In order to not be overwhelmed, I would suggest a stepped approach, with relatively limited cost and stickiness:

1. Buy a WiiM Pro (not WiiM Mini, as it is not Roon Ready). Set up in your main system and use with Apogee DAC if you so wish, in order to reduce "unknowns".
2. Download trial version of Roon and install on the most hardware capable of your Mac and laptop as your Roon Core (the server). Set up to point at your local files and w/Tidal.
3. Use the laptop/mac without Roon Core to operate the system, and enjoy! Forget about DSP and all the other stuff, and just focus on music listening.

If for any reason it doesn't work or sound as you wish, you are only out the cost of a Wiim, which should have a good resale value.

 

[Timcognito]

In order to not be overwhelmed, I would suggest a stepped approach, with relatively limited cost and stickiness:

1. Buy a WiiM Pro (not WiiM Mini, as it is not Roon Ready). Set up in your main system and use with Apogee DAC if you so wish, in order to reduce "unknowns".
2. Download trial version of Roon and install on the most hardware capable of your Mac and laptop as your Roon Core (the server). Set up to point at your local files and w/Tidal.
3. Use the laptop/mac without Roon Core to operate the system, and enjoy! Forget about DSP and all the other stuff, and just focus on music listening.

If for any reason it doesn't work or sound as you wish, you are only out the cost of a Wiim, which should have a good resale value.

Good advice except ignoring DSP. Roon's version improved my main system a lot.

 

[mags65]

Good advice except ignoring DSP. Roon's version improved my main system a lot.

Just suggesting that DSP should not necessarily be the first step when navigating options/possibilities when implementing new streamer/DAC solution the OP is looking for. As I said above, I agree this has the potential for huge improvement at a little extra effort/cost.

 

[JasonC331]

Isn't Wiim getting into Room Correction? I think I just read it in the release notes but maybe just the amp.

 

[mags65]

No, you are right. After the last firmware update a couple of days ago on my Pro, there is the opportunity for room correction in the app. Didn’t try it yet as I use convolver filter in Roon.