Suggestion for room correction hardware?

[board]

I'm looking to buy room correction hardware (not software), so I was hoping you could give me some suggestions, as I do have a few requirements, but I have exactly zero experience with these kind of products.
I have some acoustic products installed from Gik Acoustics, so most of the reverberation is gone, so now I'm looking to get rid of peaks and nulls.

So, my requirements would be:


* Something that I could ideally buy in a physical shop or online in Europe, as I live in Spain (so ideally no products being shipped from outside the European Union, but shipped from other European countries should be okay).

* Ideally a good price (obviously), but I haven't determined if that would mean €200 or €2000. I'm okay with paying more if that would give me a better product that's easier to use, has more options for curves, is more automated, etc.

* Easy to use, as I have no experience with measurements. So ideally it should be plug, press a button to measure, and play. I looked briefly at the software Room EQ Wizard, and it didn't understand much of it. So plug, pres to measure, choose curve, and play would be ideal.
Ideally, the hardware would come with a microphone (they usually do), but I could also buy a microphone separately if necessary.

* However, I would also like to be able to pick or "design" my own response curves, meaning some room correction products only have preset curves to pick from. It's possible that I would prefer a peak or dip in one area (lower treble, upper bass, etc.). So I would like the option of pressing a button, which flattens the response and then afterwards boost or lower an area of my choosing.
It should be said, though, that my speakers are GoldenEar Triton One, and they have powered subwoofers with a level control, so I can increase or decrease bass level as I wish, but I can't do the same for the treble. I might prefer one of the manufacturer's preset curves, but I would like to at least have the option of changing the curve in case I like a different sound signature.

* Ideally the hardware has at least three analogue inputs, as I would want to plug my turntable, my CD player and my DAC from my computer into the room correction hardware. As I use these three different sources regularly (plus one SACD player occassionally, but that's less important) for ease's sake I can't make do with just one analogue input or only digital inputs.
I should also say that I now have a Naim amp with a tape in/out function, and if I understand this correctly, I believe that if I connect the room correction hardware to the tape loop and I then press "tape monitor" for listening, I would be able to run the output of the entire amplifier (meaning all three sources at once) through the room correction hardware and just choose the input on the amplifier. So in that case I would only need one analogue input.
However, I auditioned an Arcam amp a while ago, and I'm planning on auditioning it again and possibly replace my Naim with the Arcam. The Arcam doesn't have a tape-loop, so I would need the three analogue inputs if I buy the Arcam, as I don't think there would be any other way to do this (except change input cables manually, which is what I would like to avoid). Some newer Arcam amps have room-correction built-in, but not the amp I liked, which was an A39. I also tried the new Arcam SA20, but I found that too bright. I do see that Arcam's SR250 has built-in room-correction, so in case someone knows if the amplifier part in the SR250 is identical to the one in A39 (identical sound) that could be an option as well, although I think I wouldn't have the option of choosing my own curves.
However, I've also been thinking that if the room correction hardware smooths the frequency response, then my Naim amp might sound the same as the Naim, and then there would be no reason to buy the Arcam amp (except for practical reasons, as certain things about the Naim annoys me, but not enough to spend €1800 on it). This would be something I could try out, if I get the room correction hardware first and then audition the Arcam afterwards.

So, I hope I included everything, and I hope it wasn't too tedious too read .
Thanks everybody!

 

[Wombat]

https://www.behringer.com/Categorie...s/Equalizers/DEQ2496/p/P0146#googtrans(en|en)

The manual: https://media63.music-group.com/media/sys_master/h52/hb9/8850013356062.pdf

Price guide: https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_deq2496_ultracurve_pro.htm

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_ecm_8000.htm

Guide for HiFi use.

1 x xlr in, 1x s/pdif in. Nothing a switch box can't fix.

Don't be put off by audio snobs.

 

[audimus]

https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24

 

[Ceburaska]

As a very easy plug and play solution I’m using Antimode DSPeaker 2.0. It comes with its own mike and you would just put it into your tape loop as you described.
If I can use it, it’s foolproof. Doesn’t require a computer.
I think the other solutions may well be better, and certainly give you more options, but they look too scary for me!

 

[Wombat]

https://webstore.vlsi.fi/epages/vls...901/Categories/DSPeaker/AntiMode_20_Dual_Core

 

[board]

Before I respond further, maybe I should say that the inputs on the hardware should be unbalanced, as I don't have XLR outputs on any of my components. If they're jack inputs, I can buy adapters to put on my RCA cables, or alternatively just buy jack cables.
Also, I have no digital output on my CD player, although it's possible that I will change my CD player in the future, and the new one might have a digital ouptut.
I just now looked up Antimode DSPeaker 2.0, and it seems to only have one RCA input, so I can only run one source, rather than three, through it.
But please keep the suggestions coming . I will start to look at the suggestions you've already made.

 

[BDWoody]

I'm looking to buy room correction hardware (not software), so I was hoping you could give me some suggestions, as I do have a few requirements, but I have exactly zero experience with these kind of products.
I have some acoustic products installed from Gik Acoustics, so most of the reverberation is gone, so now I'm looking to get rid of peaks and nulls.

So, my requirements would be:


* Something that I could ideally buy in a physical shop or online in Europe, as I live in Spain (so ideally no products being shipped from outside the European Union, but shipped from other European countries should be okay).

* Ideally a good price (obviously), but I haven't determined if that would mean €200 or €2000. I'm okay with paying more if that would give me a better product that's easier to use, has more options for curves, is more automated, etc.

* Easy to use, as I have no experience with measurements. So ideally it should be plug, press a button to measure, and play. I looked briefly at the software Room EQ Wizard, and it didn't understand much of it. So plug, pres to measure, choose curve, and play would be ideal.
Ideally, the hardware would come with a microphone (they usually do), but I could also buy a microphone separately if necessary.

* However, I would also like to be able to pick or "design" my own response curves, meaning some room correction products only have preset curves to pick from. It's possible that I would prefer a peak or dip in one area (lower treble, upper bass, etc.). So I would like the option of pressing a button, which flattens the response and then afterwards boost or lower an area of my choosing.
It should be said, though, that my speakers are GoldenEar Triton One, and they have powered subwoofers with a level control, so I can increase or decrease bass level as I wish, but I can't do the same for the treble. I might prefer one of the manufacturer's preset curves, but I would like to at least have the option of changing the curve in case I like a different sound signature.

* Ideally the hardware has at least three analogue inputs, as I would want to plug my turntable, my CD player and my DAC from my computer into the room correction hardware. As I use these three different sources regularly (plus one SACD player occassionally, but that's less important) for ease's sake I can't make do with just one analogue input or only digital inputs.
I should also say that I now have a Naim amp with a tape in/out function, and if I understand this correctly, I believe that if I connect the room correction hardware to the tape loop and I then press "tape monitor" for listening, I would be able to run the output of the entire amplifier (meaning all three sources at once) through the room correction hardware and just choose the input on the amplifier. So in that case I would only need one analogue input.
However, I auditioned an Arcam amp a while ago, and I'm planning on auditioning it again and possibly replace my Naim with the Arcam. The Arcam doesn't have a tape-loop, so I would need the three analogue inputs if I buy the Arcam, as I don't think there would be any other way to do this (except change input cables manually, which is what I would like to avoid). Some newer Arcam amps have room-correction built-in, but not the amp I liked, which was an A39. I also tried the new Arcam SA20, but I found that too bright. I do see that Arcam's SR250 has built-in room-correction, so in case someone knows if the amplifier part in the SR250 is identical to the one in A39 (identical sound) that could be an option as well, although I think I wouldn't have the option of choosing my own curves.
However, I've also been thinking that if the room correction hardware smooths the frequency response, then my Naim amp might sound the same as the Naim, and then there would be no reason to buy the Arcam amp (except for practical reasons, as certain things about the Naim annoys me, but not enough to spend €1800 on it). This would be something I could try out, if I get the room correction hardware first and then audition the Arcam afterwards.

So, I hope I included everything, and I hope it wasn't too tedious too read .
Thanks everybody!

Would this be for only 2 channel, or are you looking for multichannel?

 

[board]

Would this be for only 2 channel, or are you looking for multichannel?

Only stereo.

 

[Willem]

Do you have (a) subwoofer(s)? I ask because they need equalization more than the main speakers. I use just an Antimode 8033 for the sub, plus an RME ADI-2 DAC and its filters to add some correction to the main speakers as well.
From what I can tell, you only have one truly analogue source: the turntable. The disc player and the DAC really are digital sources, even if you use their analogue outputs. I am using the digital outputs of my Chromecast Audio, my television and my Bluray player (all into an automatic optical switch). I don't use the turntable much, but I have it connected using a Pro-ject Optical Ebox MM phono pre amplifier. It is a phono pre amp combined with an Analogue to Digital converter.
Alternatively, this miniDSP unit will be a DAC, pre amplifier and room eq unit: https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-series
The Dspeaker Antimode X4 serves a similar purpose, at a higher price level.

 

[BDWoody]

https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24

@board, I would also recommend having a look at the minidsp site. They have some very interesting options...
I use their ddrc 88d, and I'd have no problem buying another of their products.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

ARCAM SR250: https://www.stereophile.com/content/arcam-fmj-sr250-stereo-av-receiver

 

[Soniclife]

I should also say that I now have a Naim amp with a tape in/out function, and if I understand this correctly, I believe that if I connect the room correction hardware to the tape loop and I then press "tape monitor" for listening

That should work, which Naim amp is it?

 

[oivavoi]

I use the Driverack 360 from DBX, which has room eq included. You can also get the special RTA mic which you connect directly. Works really well IME! Plug n play. I like that there's no need for a computer, the ipad app is wonderful. I also like that I don't need to purchase additional software etc. It has one digital input, and two analogue xlr inputs. So you would be able to connect two sources to it.

The cheaper version is the PA2. The room eq system is the same, but the ADC and the DAC are somewhat cheaper than in the 360. But it only has two analogue xlr inputs, so you'll probably only be able to connect one source.

For most home consumer needs, I still think a minidsp unit with Dirac live would be the easiest solution.

Off-topic, but still: Why oh why did you try to get rid of the reverberation in your room? Doesn't that suck the life out of the music?

 

[Neddy]

I also use the dBX Venu 360 for my mains + sub.
It also does AES IN in addition to analog, and 6 in 3 out.
I use it's RTA mic for room EQ + crossovers, and the app (PC, android, or i-thing - I have it on desktop, tablet, and phone!) is a delight to use... I really like that I can 'dial into it' from my PC elsewhere in the house to check the settings, or even 'view' what's going on 'up there'!

I also use REW, and have implemented those suggested curves on it as well - no conclusion as to which yields better results, but will be revisiting that soon.

The dBX RTA 'auto-EQ' is less far less tweakable in terms of setup (only choices are the number of measurement positions) than REW, but implementing the results is 'finger drag' simple.

But, more importantly, the app makes it really simple & easy to make quick, real-time EQ (or even crossover) adjustments (for whatever reasons), and, I just leave the mic plugged in all the time so I can observe what's going on in 'interesting' new tracks (fun to compare inputs vs outputs - "that 26hz note does match the input!")...PLUS rebalancing my surround speaker levels via white noise (external source) from time to time.
(Typically when I switch from bluray audio discs to FLAC files.)

 

[board]

That should work, which Naim amp is it?

It's the NAC 202 (pre) and NAP 200 (power) combo. I spoke to someone once who said he used digitial room correction through the tape loop with this amp combo.

Do you have (a) subwoofer(s)? I ask because they need equalization more than the main speakers. I use just an Antimode 8033 for the sub, plus an RME ADI-2 DAC and its filters to add some correction to the main speakers as well.
From what I can tell, you only have one truly analogue source: the turntable. The disc player and the DAC really are digital sources, even if you use their analogue outputs. I am using the digital outputs of my Chromecast Audio, my television and my Bluray player (all into an automatic optical switch). I don't use the turntable much, but I have it connected using a Pro-ject Optical Ebox MM phono pre amplifier. It is a phono pre amp combined with an Analogue to Digital converter.
Alternatively, this miniDSP unit will be a DAC, pre amplifier and room eq unit: https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-series
The Dspeaker Antimode X4 serves a similar purpose, at a higher price level.

My speakers (GoldenEar Triton One) have built-in powered subwoofers, so I can't split the subwoofers from the rest of the speakers.

Off-topic, but still: Why oh why did you try to get rid of the reverberation in your room? Doesn't that suck the life out of the music?

No, there was too much reverberation in my room, so the music became to "wild" to listen to. With the acoustic products installed, it has became a much more "calm" listening experience. I covered the floor with a carpet when I moved in, which removed a lot of the reverberation. It's wooden floors, and I'm lucky to have that, since here in Spain many places have stone floors, which create absolutely terrible acoustics. When I talk to someone on the phone I can usually hear if they have stone floors.
Still, even with a carpet there was too much reverberation, and luckily the acoustic products improved that even more, although I do actually feel that if I managed to get rid of even more reverberation that would be even better. I don't find my room to be too "dead" at all.



As for the rest of you, thanks for all your suggestions and help, but I still haven't found a solution for the following reasons, so hopefully we can keep the suggestions coming .

I asked for a unit with three analogue inputs, and they would have to be unbalanced inputs, as none of my components have XLR outputs. My CD player doesn't have a digital output, so I can only run an analogue cable from the CD player to the room correction unit. The same thing goes for my turntable. My DAC (Cambridge Audio Dac Magic 100) I can probably connect to the room correction unit somehow, although it only has analogue outputs. I would also be willing to buy another DAC if that becomes necessary, as there are some really good ones available at reasonable prices.
I am aware that it does seem difficult to find a product with three analogue unbalanced inputs, which is also why I asked for help here, as I hadn't been able to find any products like that before asking.

I did, however, look at the Dspeaker Antimode X4 now, and it has two analogue unbalanced inputs, but at €4250 it's quite expensive. I'm not sure I could replace my current pre-amp with this one, since Naim is a bit idiosynchratic and usually only works with other Naim components. They also use various DIN connectors with 4-6 pins to connect pre-amps to power-amps and CD players to the pre-amp, which just complicates it even further.

The Mini DSP DDRC-88A does, however, have four analogue inputs, so maybe this could be the unit I've been looking for, and at $1000 it's more expensive than others, but doesn't break the bank. But it does say "balanced analogue inputs" on the website. I'm wondering if that's a typo. If they really are balanced RCA inputs, and not unbalanced, can I plug in my CD player, turntable and DAC? I've always been under the impression that you should only connect balanced to balanced and not to unbalaned or vice versa. Sorry, but I'm a bit of a novice with these kind of things .

BDWoody, since you suggested this brand, does the unit you use allow you to change the curves the unit creates (boost or lower certain frequencies)?

Again, thanks for all your suggestions, everybody .

 

[Soniclife]

It's the NAC 202 (pre) and NAP 200 (power) combo. I spoke to someone once who said he used digitial room correction through the tape loop with this amp combo.

The manual makes this sound limited.

The NAC 202 incorporates a mon (“tape monitor”) function.
Pressing the mon button routes the hdd, av or aux 1 input signals to the preamplifier output while leaving the input selection routed to the hdd, av and aux 1 outputs. The mon function can also be selected from the handset.

Note: Only the hdd, av and aux 1 inputs (those that incorporate outputs) can be selected when mon is engaged. However, if one of these inputs carries the source signal, that input will be unavailable for monitoring.

 

[Soniclife]

I asked for a unit with three analogue inputs, and they would have to be unbalanced inputs, as none of my components have XLR outputs. My CD player doesn't have a digital output, so I can only run an analogue cable from the CD player to the room correction unit. The same thing goes for my turntable. My DAC (Cambridge Audio Dac Magic 100) I can probably connect to the room correction unit somehow, although it only has analogue outputs. I would also be willing to buy another DAC if that becomes necessary, as there are some really good ones available at reasonable prices.

The simple solution is to move away from your Naim kit, if you did this you could buy a cd player with a digital output, a phono stage to do RIAA conversion, and a mini DSP SHD, which world give you the DSP, and DAC included. You would need a power amp as well. If your happy to move from Naim that is. Naim sells very well second hand, I'd give it consideration.

 

[Hipper]

I don't know of any ideal hardware solution the fits all your criteria. The nearest would be a Lyngdorf amp with Roomperfect:

https://lyngdorf.com/roomperfect/

I've no experience of this.

In your circumstances I suggest the following:

1. Control your bass with a combination of bass traps, positioning of your speakers and listening chair if you can, and the controls on your speakers.

2. Use REW to measure as you move speakers and chair around and install bass traps.

3. Get tone controls, or an amp with tone controls, to help with the higher frequencies.

I use a Behringer DEQ2496 but I only use a separate CD Transport and DAC with XLR, so I place the Behringer between the two where it works only in digital. I did use its ADC analogue in to play a turntable when I had one, using my DAC for the output. You can get RCA to XLR cables to do this and I found it sounded OK.

I would have thought somewhere there might be a switching device that would allow three analogue ins leading to one analogue out? What their quality is like would be the issue:

Audio-video switch

I've no idea if this would work well.

 

[raindance]

I cannot recommend the Dspeaker 2.0 unit for full range correction. It creates an audible and easily measurable downward step in the response at the point you specify to stop correction. It has some kind of compensation for this which doesn't work well. It also clips for no reason on louder recordings unless you significantly attenuate the signal (so that the corrected signal is 6-10dB lower than uncorrected). Filters, such as spectral tilt, sound horrible and don't come close to the analog approach used by Quad. I tried two different units thinking the original was bad! Both sounded awful.

The non-HD mini DSP 2x4 is pretty useless also unless you don't mind either significant insertion loss or lots of clipping.

Either of these might work OK for correcting just a sub, but I found then useless for a full range setup where there's no active crossover, where mostly what I was trying to do was correct for a room boost at 46Hz and reduce slap echo.

In the end I went with bass traps and first and second reflection treatment because each active solution gave me a result that was too lean. This is not a 100% subjective opinion, I measured the results with REW and a calibrated mic. Of course some might say lean=detailed, but I hated it; YMMV.

 

[raindance]

I meant to add one other consideration: using room correction on the subwoofer only introduces latency which makes the blend with the main speakers hard to achieve unless you move the subs quite a bit closer to you than the main speakers. The closest to goodness I've heard was with a sub that included analog parametric EQ.