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Subwoofer dilemma

Hayabusa

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This is the image as it was produced. A 3Hz wave is about 115m long so I agree it is curious as to how this would actually feel in terms of reproduction. Does this perhaps suggest I am not using the software properly?

Could be. Maybe the noise levels are too high?
Can you also show the distortion? That would show also the noise level.
 

Chrispy

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I will take some measurements in this range and put them up. The sweep data above has no smoothing applied (if I have properly used the software that is.....).

I am using my AVR as a crossover below 60Hz so the LFE is picking up all audio detail in that range and putting it to the sub.



I don't have any accessible ceiling space unfortunately. In the looks department keep in mind this is what I have now:

View attachment 222436

The area is a designated sub space so it won't really matter it it is this or the Genelec but I agree it is expensive although I do not mind the industrial look at all, looks like it means business :). Maybe this is the price I need to pay for proper integration with my other Genelecs...?



It does have a few loungeroomy things on top of it and most people wouldn't notice it is a sub unless they knew what they were looking for.



I had considered the 7360A however it is rated for a smaller space and I am concerned it won't really give me slam for movies that require that punchiness. I think it would do an excellent job for most music I listen to however.

I have the Sledge amp from the later model which gives me control over slope so I can set to 12db (which I think is a better match for the Genelecs). The integration is the key consideration also (maybe even more critical) and I agree that this option would give me confidence that this was achieved even at the cost of a bit of punch....decisions, decisions.... maybe two :)



This is the image as it was produced. A 3Hz wave is about 115m long so I agree it is curious as to how this would actually feel in terms of reproduction. Does this perhaps suggest I am not using the software properly?



I like this suggestion, thank you. It may be what I end up doing but as I mention above I am not sure it will give me the slam I like on some soundtracks in this space. If I go for the 7360A and it works I would probably want to go for the 7370A before too long. ....:facepalm:
Not sure what you mean by the 60hz crossover and lfe part of your reply.....lfe and crossover are different things.

 
OP
Peluvius

Peluvius

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Not sure what you mean by the 60hz crossover and lfe part of your reply.....lfe and crossover are different things.

Sorry, should read sub output. My AVR is outputting everything below 60Hz to the sub.
 
OP
Peluvius

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So here are a few more details. Sub only, 10Hz to 150Hz. No EQ. Primary listening position:

Distortion 10.150.jpg


Waterfall 10.150.jpg


Decay 10.150.jpg
 

Tangband

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I will take some measurements in this range and put them up. The sweep data above has no smoothing applied (if I have properly used the software that is.....).

I am using my AVR as a crossover below 60Hz so the LFE is picking up all audio detail in that range and putting it to the sub.



I don't have any accessible ceiling space unfortunately. In the looks department keep in mind this is what I have now:

View attachment 222436

The area is a designated sub space so it won't really matter it it is this or the Genelec but I agree it is expensive although I do not mind the industrial look at all, looks like it means business :). Maybe this is the price I need to pay for proper integration with my other Genelecs...?



It does have a few loungeroomy things on top of it and most people wouldn't notice it is a sub unless they knew what they were looking for.



I had considered the 7360A however it is rated for a smaller space and I am concerned it won't really give me slam for movies that require that punchiness. I think it would do an excellent job for most music I listen to however.

I have the Sledge amp from the later model which gives me control over slope so I can set to 12db (which I think is a better match for the Genelecs). The integration is the key consideration also (maybe even more critical) and I agree that this option would give me confidence that this was achieved even at the cost of a bit of punch....decisions, decisions.... maybe two :)



This is the image as it was produced. A 3Hz wave is about 115m long so I agree it is curious as to how this would actually feel in terms of reproduction. Does this perhaps suggest I am not using the software properly?



I like this suggestion, thank you. It may be what I end up doing but as I mention above I am not sure it will give me the slam I like on some soundtracks in this space. If I go for the 7360A and it works I would probably want to go for the 7370A before too long. ....:facepalm:
A perfect integration gives you better ” slam ” than a less perfect integration, no matter how powerful the subs are .
 

Hayabusa

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So here are a few more details. Sub only, 10Hz to 150Hz. No EQ. Primary listening position:

View attachment 222511
Ok, that explains the output below 15Hz.. That's all noise.
To get better resolution 10-20Hz you could measure at higher levels.
The SVS PB12 plus 2 should easily do 100dB+ at 15Hz..
(I had one, still regret selling it)
 
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Peluvius

Peluvius

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Ok, that explains the output below 15Hz.. That's all noise.
To get better resolution 10-20Hz you could measure at higher levels.
The SVS PB12 plus 2 should easily do 100dB+ at 15Hz..
(I had one, still regret selling it)

Is that the noise floor at 28%? What is a good noise floor to work with?

It will go much louder....much, much louder :)
 

Hayabusa

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Is that the noise floor at 28%? What is a good noise floor to work with?

It will go much louder....much, much louder :)
The noise floor should be well below the signal level.
I see 60-70dB noise levels so I would at least measure at 90dB+
 

FeddyLost

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I am using my AVR as a crossover below 60Hz so the LFE is picking up all audio detail in that range and putting it to the sub.
If you already have AVR as a crossover/bass management, personally I see no reason to buy GLM subwoofer for "better integration" with fronts just because AVR is doing the bass management. GLM will handle DRC, but miniDSP can do it for existing sub too.
Also, If you already have measurement mic, I'd measure your channels separately without crossover at your listening levels + few Dbs just to understand what is going on.
IMO for 6,5" fronts 4 m distance to MLP and 60 Hz crossover it's too much if you need some cinema experience. Maybe you'll choose some other frequency/slope.

PS After all, if you was seriously thinking about 7370A, you can also rethink whole concept of bass management in your room. For single 7370A you can buy few Rhythmiks L22 and miniDSP with Dirac, for example...
 
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Peluvius

Peluvius

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Thanks to all for comment & advice. I am moving towards a 7360A as an addition to the PB plus for a few reasons:
- Two subs is better than one
- The 7360A should perform in my space well enough (and is 2k cheaper when I live), particularly supplemented with the PB12.
- Hear first hand how GLM calibrates the system and have confidence at least one sub is fully integrated.
- Potential upgrade to a second 7360A down stream to replace the PB12
- Still leaves the door to miniDSP and Dirac open if I am up for it

If you already have AVR as a crossover/bass management, personally I see no reason to buy GLM subwoofer for "better integration" with fronts just because AVR is doing the bass management. GLM will handle DRC, but miniDSP can do it for existing sub too.
Also, If you already have measurement mic, I'd measure your channels separately without crossover at your listening levels + few Dbs just to understand what is going on.
IMO for 6,5" fronts 4 m distance to MLP and 60 Hz crossover it's too much if you need some cinema experience. Maybe you'll choose some other frequency/slope.

PS After all, if you was seriously thinking about 7370A, you can also rethink whole concept of bass management in your room. For single 7370A you can buy few Rhythmiks L22 and miniDSP with Dirac, for example...

My room is not too bad for an untreated living space. I have done a lot of listening with a few different crossovers (40, 60, 80, 100). 60 sounded best for me. The system is not intended to produce the "wall of sound" experience however no one else in my family enjoys that so it is not really worth chasing for me. When I upgrade to 8351A for the front two, I expect to reach the point where the front is doing exactly what i want it to (and that will mainly be improvement to off axis performance).
 
OP
Peluvius

Peluvius

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Follow-up. Implemented the 7360A earlier last week and since have been playing with crossover and integration with my other (non Genelec) sub.

Difference is remarkable in terms of now delivering tighter and more impactful bass to all seating positions in my HT. Particularly noticeable at lower volume levels interestingly. Integration through GLM is easy.

Questions still unanswered for me; Is the fact I now have two subs more relevant than the fact I can now calibrate through GLM? Have I optimised the SVS PB12plus? Are there any positioning benefits to be had (I do have some limited flexibility around placement)?
 
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