Study indicates that frequencies above 20kHz affect our perception of sound

[JeremyFife]

Hi, came across this which sounds interesting and I'm hoping that people here can comment. The study indicates that frequencies above the audible range might still affect us.
I'm not qualified to tell if the study is a good one, or if the results mean anything for music, but it seems serious.

(Edit: I did find this after reading a, frankly ridiculous, advert for a Fyne Audio £5k 'super tweeter' ... even so the study caught my attention)

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/jn.2000.83.6.3548#

 

[Blumlein 88]

Been discussed before. Search for posts with Oohashi in them. Some of his work has been replicated by other teams in Japan, and the results did not replicate.

 

[JeremyFife]

Been discussed before. Search for posts with Oohashi in them. Some of his work has been replicated by other teams in Japan, and the results did not replicate.

Ah, thanks

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Like a lot of psycho-neural research, replication is inconsistent. Consequently, the received wisdom of no response above 20kHz even for young humans should be accepted until reliable replication proves it wrong. Obviously, if it turns out to be wrong, we have 4+ decades of "damaged" music which can't be repaired!

High-frequency sound components of high-resolution audio are not detected in auditory sensory memory - PMC

High-resolution digital audio is believed to produce a better listening experience than the standard quality audio, such as compact disks (CDs) and digital versatile disks (DVDs). One common belief is that high-resolution digital audio is superior ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Blumlein 88]

Like a lot of psycho-neural research, replication is inconsistent. Consequently, the received wisdom of no response above 20kHz even for young humans should be accepted until reliable replication proves it wrong. Obviously, if it turns out to be wrong, we have 4+ decades of "damaged" music which can't be repaired!

High-frequency sound components of high-resolution audio are not detected in auditory sensory memory - PMC

High-resolution digital audio is believed to produce a better listening experience than the standard quality audio, such as compact disks (CDs) and digital versatile disks (DVDs). One common belief is that high-resolution digital audio is superior ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think many people would be really surprised how little difference you hear with most music if you put in a brickwall filter at 10 khz. It is different, it isn't night and day.

 

[restorer-john]

I think many people would be really surprised how little difference you hear with most music if you put in a brickwall filter at 10 khz. It is different, it isn't night and day.

Maybe now as audiophiles are getting older, for sure.

But I could easily hear the toggling of the 19kHz MPX filter on cassette decks in the 1980s when tuning bias/eq using interstation (pink) noise as a teenager.

Cut-off at 10kHz is really obvious to me at 57yo, it's worse than a dead tweeter.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Maybe now as audiophiles are getting older, for sure.

But I could easily hear the toggling of the 19kHz MPX filter on cassette decks in the 1980s when tuning bias/eq using interstation (pink) noise as a teenager.

Cut-off at 10kHz is really obvious to me at 57yo, it's worse than a dead tweeter.

My point is that lots of music has not all that much content you hear even if your hearing goes that high. With pink noise sure, otherwise with music, maybe not so much.

 

[SSS]

I think many people would be really surprised how little difference you hear with most music if you put in a brickwall filter at 10 khz. It is different, it isn't night and day.

I agree in my personal case due to my age now. When being young I could hear easily loud the TV horizontal frequency of the tube based high voltage generation around 15 kHz. But never reached the 20 kHz, say limit was around 18 kHz. Independent of this there is no sense for going to ultrasound in a recording since natural sounds like voice or acoustical instruments are taken by many microphones with a response limit basically at 20 kHz or little above. Electronically created sounds can of course have frequencies up to 100 kHz and more if desired.

 

[DSJR]

It's a very long time now since I walked past a display of CRT tellies with the ~15kHz line whistles making me wince - and we still had CRT tellies twenty years ago...

 

[restorer-john]

It's a very long time now since I walked past a display of CRT tellies with the ~15kHz line whistles making me wince - and we still had CRT tellies twenty years ago...

All LCD now, that's my excuse.