Streaming Service Summary

[Zensō]

What does the problem manifest itself?

On iOS, Apple Music automatically switches to match the sample rate of the track, from 16/44.1 up to 24/192. On MacOS, Apple Music resamples the track to whatever sample rate was set in the Audio MIDI app. So, if bit perfect playback is something you’re concerned with, Apple Music on iOS is a better source than Apple Music on MacOS. If bit perfect playback is not a concern, or you don’t mind manually switching the sample rate for each album or track (a major pain in my experience), then MacOS is fine.

 

[Zensō]

I thought Apple now offered some lossless music as well? If it can handle DD+ with Atmos bitrate, I'd think so....

Lossless and hi-res.

 

[Chrispy]

Lossless and hi-res.

Thanks, thought I'd read that. Is it device specific?

 

[sarumbear]

But Tidal hifi streams lossless for non MQA content. You don't have to listen to MQA.

That is CD format though isn’t it? Apple Music offers lossless 24/48kHz

 

[sarumbear]

On iOS, Apple Music automatically switches to match the sample rate of the track, from 16/44.1 up to 24/192. On MacOS, Apple Music resamples the track to whatever sample rate was set in the Audio MIDI app. So, if bit perfect playback is something you’re concerned with, Apple Music on iOS is a better source than Apple Music on MacOS. If bit perfect playback is not a concern, or you don’t mind manually switching the sample rate for each album or track (a major pain in my experience), then MacOS is fine.

I understanding now. It’s an OS limitation I assume. I will test in Windows and report back.

 

[Zensō]

Thanks, thought I'd read that. Is it device specific?

Yes, and it’s confusing as heck at this point. Because AM on iOS does auto sample rate switching, the best bet is an iOS device connected directly to an external DAC via USB. AM on the Mac doesn’t auto switch, which sort of defeats the purpose. And, of course, anything over Airplay has the potential to be resampled depending upon the source and the receiver.

All that said, in my opinion all of the concern over hi-res and bit perfect playback is mostly hand wringing because in normal listening most people (myself included) can’t hear the difference.

 

[sarumbear]

Roon is more a supplement to a service you use, not a streaming service in itself. Can offer background information/pictures to pop up while playing, offer eq, some other integration services, like integrating your own library with a service's. Both the yearly subscription and lifetime license just aren't worth the money to me. Some find it wonderful. YMMV.

I thought so by was mislead by the poster.

 

[Chrispy]

Yes, and it’s confusing as heck at this point. Because AM on iOS does auto sample rate switching, the best bet is an iOS device connected directly to an external DAC. AM on the Mac doesn’t auto switch, which sort of defeats the purpose. And, of course, anything over Airplay has the potential to be resampled depending upon the source and the receiver.

All that said, in my opinion all of the concern over hi-res and bit perfect playback is mostly hand wringing because in normal listening most people (myself included) can’t hear the difference.

Yeah seems Amazon device/app stuff is also confused. That's where Spotify seems to have an advantage IMO.

 

[Chrispy]

But Tidal hifi streams lossless for non MQA content. You don't have to listen to MQA.

Did it always? I don't remember that always being the case. Still, just their involvement with bullshit like mqa is totally off-putting.

ps Jayz ads didn't help when I trialed Tidal....very offputting as I just didn't want to bother with those, but always had to wade thru 'em.

 

[Zensō]

Yeah seems Amazon device/app stuff is also confused. That's where Spotify seems to have an advantage IMO.

Well, Spotify hasn’t released lossless yet, so we don’t know. They most likely will run into some of the same obstacles as Apple Music and Amazon once they do. Apple Music didn’t have these issues when they were streaming lossy like Spotify. It’s the move to higher sample rates and the desire for bit perfect playback that complicates these different methods of delivery. If someone wants to simplify Apple Music, all they have to do is turn off lossless/hi-res and stop worrying about it.

 

[Chrispy]

Well, Spotify hasn’t released lossless yet, so we don’t know. They most likely will run into some of the same obstacles as Apple Music and Amazon once they do. Apple Music didn’t have these issues when they were streaming lossy like Spotify. It’s the move to higher sample rates and the desire for bit perfect playback that complicates these different methods of delivery. If someone wants to simplify Apple Music, all they have to do is turn off lossless/hi-res and stop worrying about it.

Personally don't think the lossless makes any difference, I still prefer using Spotify over Amazon (and have a bad taste in my mouth from previous and now defunct versions of such). Think bandwidth cost could still be an issue for them, tho.

 

[sarumbear]

A quick look at iTunes confirmed that the program is designed to have set audio output spec. Whatever you play it converts to the output spec you set. This means bit perfect is only possible for one format only.

 

[PeteL]

That is CD format though isn’t it? Apple Music offers lossless 24/48kHz

Yep, I was replying to the part of your statement that said "At least it's CD format"... Talking about Airplay in this case, not Apple Music.

 

[Zensō]

A quick look at iTunes confirmed that the program is designed to have set audio output spec. Whatever you play it converts to the output spec you set. This means bit perfect is only possible for one format only.

Thanks, that confirmed what I thought.

 

[PeteL]

Did it always? I don't remember that always being the case. Still, just their involvement with bullshit like mqa is totally off-putting.

ps Jayz ads didn't help when I trialed Tidal....very offputting as I just didn't want to bother with those, but always had to wade thru 'em.

As far as I remember, always been lossless from the start. Me I use Tidal cause Spotify don't sound good to me, Apple music don't integrate well with BluOS, Amazon HD neither, plus I simply don't like Amazon (no need to be political I know, but you are being too). Qobuz is not available in Canada and I don't like deezer interface and recommendations. Tidal it is. I don't get any adds, wouldn't know about that.

 

[Chrispy]

As far as I remember, always been lossless from the start. Me I use Tidal cause Spotify don't sound good to me, Apple music don't integrate well with BluOS, Amazon HD neither, plus I simply don't like Amazon (no need to be political I know, but you are being too). Qobuz is not available in Canada and I don't like deezer interface and recommendations. Tidal it is. I don't get any adds, wouldn't know about that.

When I trialed Tidal I had to wade thru Jayz's own music stuff each time I opened it to get to the rest of it....that was a while ago fwiw, perhaps there was a customization I didn't find but wasn't really thinking I needed to look for either. I did trial Qobuz at the time, too, thought it had more content for me, too, compared to what I found on my searches of preferred content on Tidal; either way could totally depend on personal taste as far as available content goes. The sound quality wasn't a particular issue for my purposes in any case, am not looking for a service like this to take the place of my own collection but even 320kbps conversions I do from lossless are largely indistinguishable from my lossless rips....even if you get into nitty gritty of which codec like Ogg Vorbis vs AAC vs LAME, etc.

 

[audio2design]

Sort of mind boggling how poor the Amazon Music I/F is. It's like a bad high school project.

Don't forget Qoboz, Deezer too.

 

[Tom C]

Apple Music in iOS offers lossless ranging from CD quality (44.1/16) to 192/24. In Apple world, the term lossless is used in reference to lossy audio codecs such as AAC or MP3 vs lossless compression codec ALAC. Both AAC and ALAC are 44.1/16, but one is lossy, the other isn’t, according to its compression algorithim. 44.1/24 and 48/24 are considered studio quality and lossless. When Apple says Hi-Res, they mean 24-bit audio at sample rates above 48kHz.
The native music app included in iOS and macOS is called Apple Music. iTunes is strictly a Windows app only.
The Apple Music streaming service is available in iTunes for Windows PC, and as a web based service that will work in any browser that I know of. However, in both of these instances it is limited to delivery of lossy AAC only, in 44.1/16. Apple lossless ALAC in unavailable in iTunes. But iTunes will still show in your DAC as 44.1/16, because it is 44.1/16, just lossy compressed.
The only way to have Apple lossless is by using a device running an Apple OS (or maybe Apple Music for Android. That’s something I never tried).

 

[DHT 845]

I"m waiting for Spotify connect hi-res. I hope for easy streaming solution for R-pi 4B USB Connection directly to DAC.

 

[sarumbear]

Apple Music in iOS offers lossless ranging from CD quality (44.1/16) to 192/24. In Apple world, the term lossless is used in reference to lossy audio codecs such as AAC or MP3 vs lossless compression codec ALAC. Both AAC and ALAC are 44.1/16, but one is lossy, the other isn’t, according to its compression algorithim. 44.1/24 and 48/24 are considered studio quality and lossless. When Apple says Hi-Res, they mean 24-bit audio at sample rates above 48kHz.
The native music app included in iOS and macOS is called Apple Music. iTunes is strictly a Windows app only.
The Apple Music streaming service is available in iTunes for Windows PC, and as a web based service that will work in any browser that I know of. However, in both of these instances it is limited to delivery of lossy AAC only, in 44.1/16. Apple lossless ALAC in unavailable in iTunes. But iTunes will still show in your DAC as 44.1/16, because it is 44.1/16, just lossy compressed.
The only way to have Apple lossless is by using a device running an Apple OS (or maybe Apple Music for Android. That’s something I never tried).

Your information is not correct. The latest version of iTunes for Windows can play lossless tracks. The problem with iTunes is you cannot change the sampling rate between tracks. The output setting is fixed. Any track with a different sample rate is converted to that setting.

However, as the vast majority of tracks on Apple Music is sampled 44.1kHz you will play lossless most of the time.