strange SMSL M500 high 3rd harmonic

[MarsianC#]

Can someone please test IMD with different multitones for each channel? Should look horrible.... maybe in audible range!

 

[mkawa]

Optimistically, this seems to indicate that they really don’t know that these issues exist...

fwiw they do need clear repro before they can do anything else.

however, the modifications they made to liu's replacement unit make no sense unless they have some idea what's happening.

 

[jruser]

Anybody have step-by-step instructions for how to check this with a PC sound card?

 

[JSmith]

Quote from a previous thread about a SU-9 issue that sounds possibly related to this issue here...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/problems-with-smsl-su-9.18625/#post-689836

I did however notice there's a small ground hum coming through the right channel too - i can only perceive is late a night after music has stopped, so it's in no way affecting anything - but again, the dac magic plus never did this, so it's just one more example of lack of attention to detail.

JSmith

 

[aandres_gm]

The silence is deafening. I recently purchased a headphone stack and, before making a decision, I browsed the biggest forums to see which companies were active online, as I find communication to be extremely important. This was the reason I bought FiiO products back in the day, and why I didn't get SMSL this time around.

The current situation serves as a reaffirmation to my decision.

 

[raif71]

This has been a topic for a bit, I believe. The brands are very aware of which measurements will be performed by the reviewers, so they can optimize their products for those, even though that may mean neglecting other areas.

It may be necessary to adjust the testing protocols at this point. Wouldn't it be extremely ironic if all the subjectivists who said "test with music" (aka under normal use conditions) would end up being right?

Yes that would be ironic but if I understand correctly to uncover such discrepancies the reviewer should add @liu 's steps when measuring DACs in the future , right?

 

[nhs]

Really bad, my su9 arrived yesterday. I might send it back and get the Gustard X16 if I figure out how to get the infrared codes for Gustards remote control for integration in my universal remote control app.

 

[Satyadhara]

That's it, my M500 is going back. Bought it in August 2020, and just chatted with Amazon customer support. They said they are aware of the problem, and I can return the M500 without any problems. Already received the return label.

 

[kfscoll]

That's it, my M500 is going back. Bought it in August 2020, and just chatted with Amazon customer support. They said they are aware of the problem, and I can return the M500 without any problems. Already received the return label.

If SMSL doesn't post an update in the next week or so I'm going to do the exact same thing.

 

[nhs]

If SMSL doesn't post an update in the next week or so I'm going to do the exact same thing.

What update? I don't think they can fix it within the firmware.

 

[Veri]

What update? I don't think they can fix it within the firmware.

A "news" update.

 

[dpippel]

I found out about the possibility of this issue affecting the SU-9 a couple of weeks ago, on the LAST day of my return window, and I decided to send it back for a refund just in case. Looks like I made the right decision. Now I'm sitting here with a D30 Pro and am wondering what problems, if any, will crop up for it sometime down the road.

I'd love it if these kinds of defects would present themselves during Amir's testing. The great measurement of the SU-9 he reported in his review was the deciding factor in my purchasing decision for this DAC. Makes me wonder how many of the other devices sitting at the top of ASR's ratings heap might not be as great as they appear to be.

 

[aandres_gm]

I found out about the possibility of this issue affecting the SU-9 a couple of weeks ago, on the LAST day of my return window, and I decided to send it back for a refund just in case. Looks like I made the right decision. Now I'm sitting here with a D30 Pro and am wondering what problems, if any, will crop up for it sometime down the road.

I'd love it if these kinds of defects would present themselves during Amir's testing. The great measurement of the SU-9 he reported in his review was the deciding factor in my purchasing decision for this DAC. Makes me wonder how many of the other devices sitting at the top of ASR's ratings heap might not be as great as they appear to be.

Amir's testing shouldn't be the only criteria you apply to a purchase. Many people here don't understand half of what the graphs are saying, nor what they really mean, which is why they get caught in a rat race chasing numbers. While numbers are important and, in many cases, can serve as a sort of primary filter, a purchasing decision should take in count aspects such as warranties, support, design, usability, etc.

A balanced approach is always smarter, which is why consulting several sources of information (reviewers) is key.

 

[MusicNBeer]

I would assume the problem is not fixable otherwise it would have been announced by now. To me, it appears to be an analog circuit problem.

 

[dpippel]

Amir's testing shouldn't be the only criteria you apply to a purchase.

I never said that it was. You're exactly right about interpreting the graphs and data though, which is why many of us here rely on Amir and Prof. Wolf to boil it all down and point out any glaring problems or greatness. Nothing wrong with that. It's one of the main reasons this site even exists.

 

[Jimbob54]

Amir's testing shouldn't be the only criteria you apply to a purchase. Many people here don't understand half of what the graphs are saying, nor what they really mean, which is why they get caught in a rat race chasing numbers. While numbers are important and, in many cases, can serve as a sort of primary filter, a purchasing decision should take in count aspects such as warranties, support, design, usability, etc.

A balanced approach is always smarter, which is why consulting several sources of information (reviewers) is key.

I agree. And next time round I am buying a device with a proven record , thats been out a year or more. There is very little in audio that is truly transformational (expansion of multi channel for audio is probably the next big one for mass adoption) so little need to buy the latest and greatest. I must confess, I bought for MQA (I know!) more than the chart topping SINAD etc but bought on the strength of the measurements that existed rather than a raft of real world reviews and experiences AND the measurements.

 

[kfscoll]

Well, I was expecting we'd get a statement from SMSL based on Liu's statement that was quoted in this post. However, Liu's statement has since been deleted, so now there's no telling whether SMSL will release a statement or even acknowledge this problem AT ALL.

Like I said above, I'll give it another week and if I don't hear anything from SMSL my M500 is going back. In fact, I'll seriously consider sending back my M400 and SH400 too. I don't need to support a company that deceives its customers with unannounced component substitutions and faulty performance.

I'm sure a large portion of SMSL's business comes from the glowing reviews they've received on ASR. If they don't step up and address this situation soon I have a feeling they'll find out that the ASR sword cuts both ways.

 

[MusicNBeer]

I agree, it's a very disappointing response from all involved. The humble person will always acknowledge mistakes and learn from them. Not only learn about fixing the mistake, but learn how to deal with it. Another irony is that short term avoidance, seemingly to ones benefit, will always turn into long term cost.

 

[kfscoll]

I agree, it's a very disappointing response from all involved. The humble person will always acknowledge mistakes and learn from them. Not only learn about fixing the mistake, but learn how to deal with it. Another irony is that short term avoidance, seemingly to ones benefit, will always turn into long term cost.

Yup. If SMSL does decide to do the right thing and repair, replace, or offer refunds to those devices/owners affected by this, they’ll have demonstrated that they stand behind their products and will likely make me (among others) a repeat customer. The ball’s in their court, but they need to act. And sooner rather than later. @SMSL-Mandy and @SMSL_Liu, we’d love to hear from you!

 

[JSmith]

Well, I was expecting we'd get a statement from SMSL based on Liu's statement that was quoted in this post. However, Liu's statement has since been deleted, so now there's no telling whether SMSL will release a statement or even acknowledge this problem AT ALL.

That's rather odd that post has been removed.

Keep in mind this post though and maybe wait until the weekend;

I decided to give him 2-3 days to resolve these issues. If I still don’t get a reply on the weekend... then I don’t care about that much.

JSmith