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strange SMSL M500 high 3rd harmonic

4udio

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This kind of measurements should be standard from now on. It is obvious that SMSL has poor QA. As an owner of SU-9 , I'm very "displeased" with this findings. I've had some filling that sound is kinda wrong compared to D70s but I couldn't identify a problem on my own .
 

solderdude

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Pretty sure. Other DACs don't do this.
3rd harm at -70dB is nearing audible levels when harmonics are in the 2-5kHz range.
Music and individual dependent.

B.t.w. all measurements contain errors but the magnitude shown here and repeatability means it isn't an error. At least not of the measurement.

Edit: It seems like WolfX removed the measurements he made and is now confirming it but with other settings ?
 
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fluufy

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I did see Wolf’s measurements earlier - looks like he got a call from SMSL. So we shall await the official response.

I’m pretty sure I can hear something, when I have the M500 at full, and the SH-9 at 55 or so, the sound has a slight brightness or brittleness to it. I like to do this for the headroom as I run Sundara with Oratory EQ. When I turn the DAC down to 30 and the SH-9 up to 70 something, it seems smoother, even with the DAC at 34. The Schiit stack sits somewhere in between, but it has a scratchy volume pot. I can’t hear a difference either way through HD58x.

Having said that, this could be psychosomatic, as I can’t blind test, the fastest switch I have is to unplug/plug-in the phones, and I can never quite rewind the music to the same spot :) And I still like the design of the M500.
 

JSmith

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@SMSL-Mandy @SMSL_Liu ... seriously, what is going on here with the results? Just be honest with everyone... if you're not it will be to the detriment of your business.

I've been pretty open minded about this so far and am happy to see the matter resolved in a positive way... if a perception of deception develops this breeds negativity and this will lead to a downfall of your brand.

I suggest an official response is needed urgently or the longer this goes on the worse it will look.



JSmith
 

WolfX-700

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I did see Wolf’s measurements earlier - looks like he got a call from SMSL. So we shall await the official response.

I’m pretty sure I can hear something, when I have the M500 at full, and the SH-9 at 55 or so, the sound has a slight brightness or brittleness to it. I like to do this for the headroom as I run Sundara with Oratory EQ. When I turn the DAC down to 30 and the SH-9 up to 70 something, it seems smoother, even with the DAC at 34. The Schiit stack sits somewhere in between, but it has a scratchy volume pot. I can’t hear a difference either way through HD58x.

Having said that, this could be psychosomatic, as I can’t blind test, the fastest switch I have is to unplug/plug-in the phones, and I can never quite rewind the music to the same spot :) And I still like the design of the M500.

SMSL did ask me to give them some time to reproduce and fix these issues. Since SU-9 is provided by SMSL, my principle is always: respect the request of the provider. And their engineers also contacted my Wechat in a short time. I provided him with my full set of 555 measurement settings. I decided to give him 2-3 days to resolve these issues. If I still don’t get a reply on the weekend... then I don’t care about that much.
 

WolfX-700

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@WolfX-700 are you retracting the measurements you showed earlier?

The first M500 I posted on this post (reproduces Liu's measurement) is my own purchase, and the owner is myself. I don't need to consider anyone's ideas. I am responsible for the measurement.
 

MusicNBeer

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So SMSL provided Wolf an SU-9 unit with the problem? That's bizarre actually. They didn't test it, or consult their engineers first? The problem is so easy to see, even with a PC soundcard line in.:facepalm:
 

aandres_gm

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Ironically those of us that bought gear based on having the best measurements, were actually listening to gear with the worst measurements (in one channel at least).
This has been a topic for a bit, I believe. The brands are very aware of which measurements will be performed by the reviewers, so they can optimize their products for those, even though that may mean neglecting other areas.

It may be necessary to adjust the testing protocols at this point. Wouldn't it be extremely ironic if all the subjectivists who said "test with music" (aka under normal use conditions) would end up being right?
 

WolfX-700

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So SMSL provided Wolf an SU-9 unit with the problem? That's bizarre actually. They didn't test it, or consult their engineers first? The problem is so easy to see, even with a PC soundcard line in.:facepalm:
Optimistically, this seems to indicate that they really don’t know that these issues exist...
 
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L

liu

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(reproduces Liu's measurement)

Prof. Wolf, there is something I need to clarify --- When SMSL asked me last time how to reproduce the M500 issue, I gave them your AP measurement settings, specifically, this screenshot:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/60-jpg.126652/

I did this because I believe this would make them easier to troubleshoot as they are using AP as well.

So when they say they "can't reproduce it with _my_ setting", it actually means they "can't reproduce it with _your_ setting".
 
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