• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Steve Guttenberg on active speakers

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
4,676
Likes
2,849
Sure but, going forward, why would one feed analog to a DSP speaker when all modern sources are digital?

It's obviously not idea but.... as an example, how to connect both a Bluesound Node 2i's digital coax output and a TV's TOSlink output, to D&D 8C (example only) and have volume control?

Would be great if there was a digital preamp (multiple digital inputs and AES3 output) that featured a good digital volume control with physical remote volume control... but there aren't many...

A DAC/Pre allows multiple digital sources and physical remote volume control. I've seen people do this with DSP speakers. The more practical solution (for when you have multiple digital sources) vs ideal.
 

svart-hvitt

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
2,375
Likes
1,253
It's obviously not idea but.... as an example, how to connect both a Bluesound Node 2i's digital coax output and a TV's TOSlink output, to D&D 8C (example only) and have volume control?

Would be great if there was a digital preamp (multiple digital inputs and AES3 output) that featured a good digital volume control with physical remote volume control... but there aren't many...

A DAC/Pre allows multiple digital sources and physical remote volume control. I've seen people do this with DSP speakers. The more practical solution (for when you have multiple digital sources) vs ideal.

Check out Lake People DAT RS 05.
 

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
4,676
Likes
2,849
Check out Lake People DAT RS 05.

That will do the trick. I think you mentioned this to me on a different thread but I had no idea it existed till you mentioned it.

There aren't many of these types of solutions so I assume this is why people hookup up DAC/Pre's to DSP speakers even though it's not ideal.
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
16,052
Likes
36,428
Location
The Neitherlands
FWIW, example of cable used in a SOTA active loudspeaker:

View attachment 27701

Looks can be deceiving.
I imagine the wire looks 'plain' but inside it is a bit like the tents used in Harry Potter movies.
They are much bigger inside and most likely are filled with huge electron highways with precious metal coatings including magic.
It must be so because active speakers sound way better than passive speakers connected with lamp cord.
 

Sergei

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
361
Likes
272
Location
Palo Alto, CA, USA
Not trying to be an apologist for "colourful" opinion, but he's not talking obsolescence so much as reliability. Speakers (without foam surrounds or ferrofluid) last forever. Amps, not so much. Limitation is the electrolytic capacitors, they hate heat and die. I've replaced them in my sub's amp, my Bryston amp, and my Hypex power supply already. I'm a EE and have estimated working life for electro caps at elevated temps, not pretty.
So true.
Sticking them in a cabinet with no ventilation will not improve the situation.
I encountered three types of heat exchanger designs in active studio monitors I have owned:

(A) The one you describe. Haphazard. Hot air circulates inside a boxed-out space with electronic components, heating back-wall smooth metal plate. Works for class-D amps, yet not good for the caps. No longer own any monitors with such design.

(B) A tricky one. The heating internal electronic parts are exposed to room air via the cabinet port(s). Designer's hope is that the monitor will be getting enough low frequency signal components, so that the air being pumped through the ports will be cooling the electronics well enough. All or almost all Adams are designed that way (don't know specifics of their largest monitors designs).

If the designer's assumption holds, all is good. However, if the monitor spends significant time being turned on but without signal, or if a separate subwoofer is utilized for low frequency signal components, the assumption breaks down and the caps may overheat. I believe this is one of the major reasons for Adams not having a stellar reputation for long-term reliability.

(C) What I consider to be a proper design. Utilizing metal heat exchangers connected to a conventional large finned radiator at the back of a monitor, or the whole monitor cabinet being one large metal heat exchanger combined with radiator. Genelec and Neumann favor this design approach. Shall be about as reliable as a conventional amp. Had no failures with those so far.
What magnifies this several fold are the crap caps that sometimes come from China these days. They took out my Hypex and sub amp.

Yep, instead of the proper 10,000+ hours of useful life under nominal voltage and ripple, such caps may only provide 2,000. The tell-tale characteristic is factory warranty duration. Avoid "professional" studio monitors with 12 months warranty. Real professional monitors tend to have 5 years warranty.
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
66
Likes
15
Not trying to be an apologist for "colourful" opinion, but he's not talking obsolescence so much as reliability. Speakers (without foam surrounds or ferrofluid) last forever. Amps, not so much. Limitation is the electrolytic capacitors, they hate heat and die. I've replaced them in my sub's amp, my Bryston amp, and my Hypex power supply already. I'm a EE and have estimated working life for electro caps at elevated temps, not pretty. Sticking them in a cabinet with no ventilation will not improve the situation.

What magnifies this several fold are the crap caps that sometimes come from China these days. They took out my Hypex and sub amp.

Yes, but most new active speakers in the future will most likely use newer class D amplification that runs way cooler that can result in 100,000 plus hours of capacitor life which is over ten years of 24/7 non stop use.
 

DDF

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
Messages
617
Likes
1,360
Yes, but most new active speakers in the future will most likely use newer class D amplification that runs way cooler that can result in 100,000 plus hours of capacitor life which is over ten years of 24/7 non stop use.

Wouldn't that be nice. The high efficiency for a particular class d amp may only only be at high power outputs. Idle power loss may still be high like the nc400

My smps1200 had supply caps die in 2 years of light use and my sub's classd amp supply caps died after a few years of light use
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
66
Likes
15
Haha, yea
I have a set of powered Swan Speakers: http://6moons.com/audioreviews/swans2/1.html that I use on the patio
in the summer , they provide a wonderful sound for a small set of speakers, Had them for about 8 years, never a problem.

I can only listen to Steve Guttenberg for about 30 seconds.

Haha, I agree the Steve Guttenberg sound is immediately fatiguing with an annoying tendency of odd order bias.
 

arboleda

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
58
Likes
57
Location
San Diego
I think if he were unbiased he would volunteer that class d amplifiers had a justifiably bad initial reputation but that the baton is now being passed from AB to D in a very general sense. Im continuing his video from that point but I already suspect that with this premise (that I disagree with) I’ll have a hard time with arguments that follow by progression.
 
H

Hifihedgehog

Guest
I was travelling for a while. Now that I'm back, here are some measurements made by Sound & Recording of monitors using AMTs. Six units by Adam, and one each by Eve, ESI and HEDD.
You wouldn't happen to have access to the Adam A7X's measurements? I'm curious how they measure compared to the now defunct ARTist 5.
 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827
You wouldn't happen to have access to the Adam A7X's measurements? I'm curious how they measure compared to the now defunct ARTist 5.
No, sorry. I wish I did.

I used the original A7s for a long time and loved them until they burnt out (left them on during a storm and lightning hit a nearby transformer). The overall character is very similar to the S2V that I have now.
 
H

Hifihedgehog

Guest
Thanks! After demoing several different active monitors (Yamaha HS8, Fluid Audio FPX7, HEDD Type 07, Focal Shape 65) over the last month and a half, I *very* happily own the A7X's and I absolutely love their sound but I've always wondered what their sound is like compared to the S2V's.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

thewas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
6,901
Likes
16,911
You wouldn't happen to have access to the Adam A7X's measurements? I'm curious how they measure compared to the now defunct ARTist 5.
Here are some detailed measurements of it https://www.fidelity-online.de/2015/01/06/kompakte-studiomonitore-von-nubert-adam-und-sls/ (from the same professor who measures also the monitors for the German magazine "Sound & Recording")

Here also some less detailed measurements from a German hifi magazine https://www.adam-audio.com/content/...io_a7x_studio_reference_monitor_audio.pdf.pdf
 

pk500

Active Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
265
Likes
292
I probably wouldn't spend a ton of dough on active speakers in case the amp blew. Easier to replace a separate component instead of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

But for something like an office desktop speaker for near-field listening from a PC, on a budget? Powered desktop speakers sound really good and save precious space on tight desks. I'm testing Edifier R1280T and Micca PB42X this week, and they're both really nice for that scenario.

Funny that Guttenberg bitched about actives in 2019. He sure liked these in 2018:
 

dshreter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
808
Likes
1,258
It's obviously not idea but.... as an example, how to connect both a Bluesound Node 2i's digital coax output and a TV's TOSlink output, to D&D 8C (example only) and have volume control?

Would be great if there was a digital preamp (multiple digital inputs and AES3 output) that featured a good digital volume control with physical remote volume control... but there aren't many...

A DAC/Pre allows multiple digital sources and physical remote volume control. I've seen people do this with DSP speakers. The more practical solution (for when you have multiple digital sources) vs ideal.

Check out Lake People DAT RS 05.

Totally agree, this is for me the biggest reason that powered monitors are not very friendly to integrate in the home. Convenient input switching and volume control basically doesn't exist, especially if you need to work with HDMI.
 

DuxServit

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
428
Likes
508
My wife disagrees with this Guttenberg fellow — she loves her Audioengine active speakers, listens to it every day.

Besides, I thought Guttenberg praised the Elac Navis active speakers.
 
H

Hifihedgehog

Guest
Here are some detailed measurements of it https://www.fidelity-online.de/2015/01/06/kompakte-studiomonitore-von-nubert-adam-und-sls/ (from the same professor who measures also the monitors for the German magazine "Sound & Recording")

Here also some less detailed measurements from a German hifi magazine https://www.adam-audio.com/content/...io_a7x_studio_reference_monitor_audio.pdf.pdf
This is perfect. Thanks!

EDIT: Is it just me or do the Eves have significantly lower distortion and a much flatter response and yet the magazine gives the most points to the Adams? Huh?!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sgt. Ear Ache

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
1,895
Likes
4,162
Location
Winnipeg Canada
Steve seems like a nice fellow, but I just disagree with so much of what he says. His recent video on the top ten audiophile rules is full of hokum. I commented ...will likely not be real popular. His reviews of speakers are so over full of meaningless fluff words and subjective impressions of "magical" qualities. I would just dearly love to see him put some of his convictions up to the (blind) test...
 

Cahudson42

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
1,083
Likes
1,557
Steve seems like a nice fellow
I read him for his recording/music reviews..Introduced me to stuff and artists I never heard of, and were nteresting..

His equipment reviews - not so much. Pretty useless, entirely subjectiveist..
 
Top Bottom