Stereo 2.1 - sub integration with tape rec loop on Denon PMA 700 AE

[Philipp]

Dear fellow ASR people,

could I use my SVS SB-1000 Sub integrated over tape REC Selector on my Denon PMA 700 AE, so that I can benefit from the HighPassFilter RCA out on the Sub.
See schematic attached. Does that work?
Does the Amp play the TP-IN from TAPE1 (which is the SUB) over the main speakers when configured like that? The „silent“ source (silent in terms of not selected with the INPUT selector, but with REC selector), connected to the TUNER input whould be the WiiM or CD.
Really better to understand while looking at the PDF attached or the picture below.

Best regards,
Philipp

 

[Philipp]

@restorer-john
Whould you like to engage?
It would be much appreciated!

I read a couple of comments of you, in other threads, where you explained that most modern amps do not have a real TAPE LOOP, missing TAPE SELECTOR and MONITOR LOOP or the monitor button.
Very interesting.

My amp is not really modern, not really old, it has REC SELECTOR, but no MONITOR BUTTON.

Could it be used for SUB integration as described? I know, volume control for the SUB is only possible with the subs volume knob, as TAPE REC OUT is fixed volume, that is ok with me in my usecase.

Any thoughts?

 

[Elkerton]

That should work just fine. I've recommended it to another who bought a PSB sub with low and high pass filter. He never complained

For playback, you will choose the source, like CD, with the Record Out selector and the Input selector will be set at whichever tape monitor position you choose.

You will free up all of the Denon's amplifier power for your Elacs as well as lower their IM distortion because they are no longer being asked to produce low bass frequencies. Their mid frequencies should, therefore, be a little clearer. Besides which, you'll be able to play the system Louder!

 

[Philipp]

@Elkerton
Thanks a lot, did not find that thread, only one where an external equalizer was discussed, and some other related topics, but not 1:1 tranferable. After hooking it up, I know more, but ripping apart the livingroom setup is some trouble, well integrated in a cabinet, not quick to get out, so I wanted to consult first.

 

[Elkerton]

BGLeduc correctly commented that the record out is at a fixed volume level which will not be affected by the Denon’s volume control, so the sub’s volume level will only be controlled by its volume control :-( Sorry.

 

[early rejecter]

Use PRE OUT instead of REC OUT. As noted above, the REC OUT signal is fixed; using PRE OUT will allow volume control of the subwoofer from the amplifier.

 

[pablolie]

My one concern would be the potentially long-ish RCA TAPE_OUT > SUB > TAPE_IN loop... some slight signal degradation possible because (1) longer RCA cables (2) how good is the sub at protecting signal integrity. How long is the cable run to the sub? What sub is it?

But indeed this is the right approach given the options such amps offer and many of those amps still perform very well).

 

[BGLeduc]

I note that the sub also has speaker level inputs. Since you have no way to high-pass the mains no matter what, you could try that and use the subs low pass filter to try to set the sub to blend with the natural roll off of the mains.

 

[Philipp]

Since you have no way to high-pass the mains

It is a SVS SB-1000 Classic, it has HPF out over RCA, that is the reason for the Loop, which does Not work using PRE out, because it will Play the source connected to the INPUT over PRE OUT not the source selected over REC SELECTOR filtered coming back over INPUT SELECT.
See schematic in post #1.

 

[Philipp]

It is very important that you point that out:

BGLeduc correctly commented that the record out is at a fixed volume level which will not be affected by the Denon’s volume control, so the sub’s volume level will only be controlled by its volume control :-(

but only for others who might want to try this kind of sub integration in the same matter, in my case like I said

I know, volume control for the SUB is only possible with the subs volume knob, as TAPE REC OUT is fixed volume, that is ok with me in my usecase.

Thank you again for participitating, because I was not sure it is even functional and you helped me a lot!

 

[Philipp]

slight signal degradation possible because (1) longer RCA cables (2) how good is the sub at protecting signal integrity. How long is the cable run to the sub? What sub is it?

Thank you, yeah, that all is to consider. I think it will be OK. It is a decent sub (SVS SB-1000 Classic), short cables are used, 1,4 meters for the complete loop to the sub and back.
It better protects signal integrety, it was a steal (380 € new), but still good money

 

[pablolie]

Thank you, yeah, that all is to consider. I think it will be OK. It is a decent sub (SVS SB-1000 Classic), short cables are used, 1,4 meters for the complete loop to the sub and back.
It better protects signal integrety, it was a steal (380 € new), but still good money

1.4m is no length whatsoever - well done!

 

[Philipp]

@pablolie
Thank you for your input!
Starting with which lenght you would start to consider it a problematic lenght? 2,5 meters and more?

 

[pablolie]

@pablolie
Thank you for your input!
Starting with which lenght you would start to consider it a problematic lenght? 2,5 meters and more?

Everybody would tell you something different. It's never been an issue for me, so I have not really verified any of the claims. I have been told there are concert venues that easily run 100ft (30-something meters) and are fine. Then there are those that claim that 6ft should be the max.
I am certain feeding a sub 50ft away isn't an issue, it would just be the full range signal running back that would give me pause. But I am not the expert on the topic. Find myself wondering if getting a y-cable out of the TAPE-OUT is a bad idea or not - one of the two could go into TAPE-IN (hence avoiding the longer back and forth run) and the other could go all the way to the sub wherever it is? I once had a 12 or even 20ft cable out to the sub... positioning subs in the right place is more important than any concern about cable lengths, I would opine.
Again - this is not at all a recommendation, just speculating.

 

[Philipp]

Yeah, any input is welcome, thank you again. I will set it up and then I know more, there is always headroom for an upgrade, but I like to work with what I got first, because buying something new just to replace another component is sad sometimes, rendering a nice piece of audio equipment useless. I like to re-arrange without replacing, I like adding though. I like to strain my grey matter a little before buying new components as well, done that, now I have to act.

I bought this sub, because it seems to be a decent model, price was good, the HPF seemed a usable feature, now I want to integrate it the best way possible, that I will do now with much consideration beforehand, thanks to ASR, again!

 

[pablolie]

Yeah, any input is welcome, thank you again. I will set it up and then I know more, there is always headroom for an upgrade, but I like to work with what I got first, because buying something News to replace another component is sad sometimes, rendering a nice piece of audio equipment useless. I like to re-arrange without replacing, I like adding though. I like to strain my greymatter a little before buying new components as well, done that, now I have to act.

I bought this sub, because it seems to be a decent model, price was good, now I want to integrate it the best way possible, that I will do now with much consideration beforehand, thanks to ASR, again!

I absolutely applaud your approach and agree. I still own stuff I have had for nearly 30 years, and it still makes me entirely happy - and honestly it is not outclassed by the newer gear.