Splitting Frequencies

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

Hi,

I have a 2.1 system connected to a Denon X2300W. The speakers go down to about 40 hz, and about down to 32 hz resonant frequency, or something like that.

So, I added this subwoofer to get below 40 hz.

The thing is, I don't WANT it to play above 40hz.

I like the way the speakers perform above 40hz.

HOWEVER, the "LFE" crossover can only be set as low as 80 hz.

Is there any kind of hardware I can purchase that will allow me to only feed signals below 40 hz to my subwoofer via RCA?

Thank you

 

[voodooless]

HOWEVER, the "LFE" crossover can only be set as low as 80 hz.

Are you sure:

Crossovers AVR-X2300W

manuals.denon.com

 

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

Are you sure:

Crossovers AVR-X2300W

manuals.denon.com

Right, so yes, I can have the speakers go down to 40, but it does not allow me to set up the bass to have a Max of less than 80. IE the LPF for LFE cannot be lower than 80

 

[kemmler3D]

This can be done no problem with a MiniDSP 2x4 or similar unit.

 

[DVDdoug]

Right, so yes, I can have the speakers go down to 40, but it does not allow me to set up the bass to have a Max of less than 80. IE the LPF for LFE cannot be lower than 80

A crossover includes high-pass and low-pass. They will track each other and the bass above 40Hz should be routed to the main speakers.

But, the LFE channel doesn't get up-mixed. (With no sub you lose the LFE channel.) So, depending on how the bass management works, you may lose any LFE above 40Hz. (Probably not... The higher frequency LFE probably isn't filtered-out of the sub signal.)

 

[Elkerton]

IMO, you miss the point of using a subwoofer. Yes, it, or they, will lower the overall frequency response of the whole system, which is important, but it also does 2 other important things, neither at the expense of the sound of your main speakers.

Because the crossover is at 80Hz (the commonly used frequency for the high pass filter), all of the power of your Denon is now reserved for frequencies above 80. You can play your system louder. Besides which, because the satellites no longer have to produce frequencies below 80, FM distortion (frequency modulation) is reduced, where a 400Hz note is affected by the 40Hz note played at the same time for example.

Properly integrated, you are likely to be unable to tell that the satellites are crossed out at 80Hz. In my own system, the satellites are crossed out at 100 and the sub works from 80 down for reasons I will elucidate if anyone cares to know. While fundamental frequencies of drums and bass guitars may be quite low, their harmonics are much higher in frequency and reproduced by the satellites, so what you like about them will shine.

 

[Andysu]

Hi,

I have a 2.1 system connected to a Denon X2300W. The speakers go down to about 40 hz, and about down to 32 hz resonant frequency, or something like that.

So, I added this subwoofer to get below 40 hz.

The thing is, I don't WANT it to play above 40hz.

I like the way the speakers perform above 40hz.

HOWEVER, the "LFE" crossover can only be set as low as 80 hz.

Is there any kind of hardware I can purchase that will allow me to only feed signals below 40 hz to my subwoofer via RCA?

Thank you

40Hz , must i do a video , stay tuned , ( video live or video coming soon within next hr ) i know exactly what you mean , neo

 

[Andysu]

Right, so yes, I can have the speakers go down to 40, but it does not allow me to set up the bass to have a Max of less than 80. IE the LPF for LFE cannot be lower than 80

only reason subs 80Hz home THX days or maybe some for Dolby Stereo 4.2.4 , six track Dolby Stereo 70mm , SR-D six channel

dialog male voice often stops around given 100Hz , female voice lowest is ii think 150 160Hz , sound effects lowest may of some at 100Hz some others below or at 80Hz and lower
80Hz depending on crossover slope ,
-6dB no good you'd still hear 1KHz sine wave ( for argument sake ASR crowd )
-12dB no good
-18dB meh
-24dB getting better if not ideal
-48dB better its like vertical almost filter
lower i think its elliptical crossover filter is very steep vertical , actuall can add , -48dB and -48dB together , sported

do anything with behringer DCX 2496 ( used ) cheaper than mini dsp offers 6 outputs , plus a lot more besides that

basically you should never set sub at 80Hz for Dolby digital LFE.1 signal is filtered in the mix to roughly stop around 120Hz
now most AVR like what you have isn't clever , , now a trinnov , no actually i wouldn't want a trinnov too expensive , now a stomaudio , okay ., my THX cinema is so complex in its B-chain , i can set Dolby Stereo ( sub bass extension ) to be sub bass filtered at 80Hz or 50Hz , while Dolby digital atmos , LFE.1 120Hz


blending sub bass LFE.1 into any channel in my THX cinema , yes the surrounds , so lows will be or can be only played at certain range within the room , and no LFE.1 won't break speakers used for surrounds , same frequencies

 

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

Okay, I may have gotten everyone confused with mentioning LFE because what i'm actually trying to do has nothing to do with LFE.

Basically what I DON'T want is for BOTH my Speakers AND by Subwoofer to be to be producing bass from 40 hz to 80 hz. Now, Actually, I could make my speakers go down to 80 hz only, and that would theoretically be the solution. BUT for the sake of imaging ad soundstage (tell me if I'm wrong here), I would like as much of the sound to come from my speakers. I'm only looking for that extra "oomph" from the bass below 40 hz.

 

[LTig]

Okay, I may have gotten everyone confused with mentioning LFE because what i'm actually trying to do has nothing to do with LFE.

Basically what I DON'T want is for BOTH my Speakers AND by Subwoofer to be to be producing bass from 40 hz to 80 hz. Now, Actually, I could make my speakers go down to 80 hz only, and that would theoretically be the solution. BUT for the sake of imaging ad soundstage (tell me if I'm wrong here), I would like as much of the sound to come from my speakers. I'm only looking for that extra "oomph" from the bass below 40 hz.

I understand your wish but as @Elkerton wrote you'd miss the advantage to play the system louder and with less IMD at the same time, while getting no improvement of imaging/soundstage. My speakers go down to 40 Hz but adding a sub crossed over at 80 Hz improved the low bass and the mids.

 

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

only reason subs 80Hz home THX days or maybe some for Dolby Stereo 4.2.4 , six track Dolby Stereo 70mm , SR-D six channel

dialog male voice often stops around given 100Hz , female voice lowest is ii think 150 160Hz , sound effects lowest may of some at 100Hz some others below or at 80Hz and lower
80Hz depending on crossover slope ,
-6dB no good you'd still hear 1KHz sine wave ( for argument sake ASR crowd )
-12dB no good
-18dB meh
-24dB getting better if not ideal
-48dB better its like vertical almost filter
lower i think its elliptical crossover filter is very steep vertical , actuall can add , -48dB and -48dB together , sported

do anything with behringer DCX 2496 ( used ) cheaper than mini dsp offers 6 outputs , plus a lot more besides that

basically you should never set sub at 80Hz for Dolby digital LFE.1 signal is filtered in the mix to roughly stop around 120Hz
now most AVR like what you have isn't clever , , now a trinnov , no actually i wouldn't want a trinnov too expensive , now a stomaudio , okay ., my THX cinema is so complex in its B-chain , i can set Dolby Stereo ( sub bass extension ) to be sub bass filtered at 80Hz or 50Hz , while Dolby digital atmos , LFE.1 120Hz


blending sub bass LFE.1 into any channel in my THX cinema , yes the surrounds , so lows will be or can be only played at certain range within the room , and no LFE.1 won't break speakers used for surrounds , same frequencies

I mean this with all respect but I'm lost lol

I understand your wish but as @Elkerton wrote you'd miss the advantage to play the system louder and with less IMD at the same time, while getting no improvement of imaging/soundstage. My speakers go down to 40 Hz but adding a sub crossed over at 80 Hz improved the low bass and the mids.

Okay, I see. Hmm.I wonder how much of that distortion would be a problem, consider the speaker has 4 drivers, and they are bi-amped...

 

[Elkerton]

Please reread the last paragraph of my earlier post: there’s no need for your main speakers to go so low. The sense of spaciousness, imaging, etc, etc, will be unimpaired. Let your receiver cut off the output to your main speakers at 80Hz and play with the crossover frequency that your sub cuts in, presuming it has a variable low pass filter. I would start at 80Hz and adjust the gain, that is the sub’s volume level. You may find you wish to raise or lower each through trial and error. (A useful phone app is Octave RTA, which will roughly let you see how the frequency response is. There should be a 1db/octave slope from lowest to highest frequencies.)(Each octave is a doubling of the frequency.)

 

[Cbdb2]

If you turn your mains of and just play the sub can you tell where it is located with your eyes closed? If you can it will affect your sound stage. This is more common than you think with a 80hz LPF. The filters still pass some 160hz, and are ears are a lot more sensitive to 160hz. If your sub is between your mains this doesn't matter.

 

[mlee]

There is a difference between LFE and the subwoofer xover bass management. Set speakers to small and set the crossover frequencies in speakers and subwoofer to 40hz. Problem solved. LFE is like another channel of audio. It does not correspond to the subwoofer xover. LFE settings are independent of sub/main, or at least it is in my AVR.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I am far from an expert, but I do think you should try both crossing over at 80, see if you like it. You might like what it does to the upper bass region.

Try this. Set your mains to 40. Leave the LFE at 80. Set the crossover on the sub to 40. See how that works. The LFE should be full range below 70, the sub will take care of the rest. That will at least be ballpark. Again, no expert here compared to most who post on ASR, so if there are issues with this approach I am sure we will both learn what they are.

There are other ways to hook things up depending on your sub connection options, but that's what I would try to try things without swapping cables.