Speakers against front wall - can this be settled?

[Thomas_A]

Grimm audio wide baffle poor sounding?

 

[Tangband]

Grimm audio wide baffle poor sounding?

I havent heard them - they measure fantastic, but a Linkwitz lxmini without baffle might sound better with music ?
Im not really sure.

 

[Thomas_A]

I havent heard them - they measure fantastic, but a Linkwitz lxmini without baffle might sound better with music ?
Im not really sure.

I think not. If baffles would be a trouble in general you would have large trouble with your Genelecs. A baffleless round driver will have serious diffraction issues as well.

 

[Tangband]

I think not. If baffles would be a trouble in general you would have large trouble with your Genelecs. A baffleless round driver will have serious diffraction issues as well.

True, but those serious diffraction issues maybe sound less disturbing with music, than a big baffle ?
The thing is - I have owned inwall speakers ( Mirage ) and I didnt like the sound image of them ,- as an experiment I did put some damping material around the speakers in a 1 meter circle, and the sound became much, much better . But looked awful.This experience says something to me.

Also - If I put an undamped wooden plate, 40*40 cm between my two omni microphones when doing a recording, the recorded sound will be much better if the plate is covered with acoustic damping material. - Its very clear that early reflections should be avoided, both in microphones and with loudspeakers.

If you think about microphones as being the reverse thing of a loudspeaker, the microphone always stand by itself and has no baffle around the capsule. Maybe the same should be done with speakers ?

 

[Thomas_A]

True, but those serious diffraction issues maybe sound less disturbing with music, than a big baffle ?
The thing is - I have owned inwall speakers ( Mirage ) and I didnt like the sound image of them ,- as an experiment I did put some damping material around the speakers in a 1 meter circle, and the sound became much, much better . But looked awful.This experience says something to me.

Also - If I put an undamped wooden plate, 40*40 cm between my two omni microphones ( 53 cm between them ) when doing a recording, the recorded sound will be much better it the plate is covered with acoustic damping material. - Its very clear that early reflections should be avoided, both in microphones and loudspeakers.

But you are describing very different things. You have a distance between microphone and plate. A speaker with a distance to the wall will need some damping on the wall.

A flush mounted driver does not have this distance. Neither has a driver flush mounted on the baffle. No diffraction from the edge of the driver.

 

[Tangband]

But you are describing very different things. You have a distance between microphone and plate. A speaker with a distance to the wall will need some damping on the wall.

A flush mounted driver does not have this distance. Neither has a driver flush mounted on the baffle. No diffraction from the edge of the driver.

But the recorded sound from a microphone put flush on a big undamped table will sound much worse than If its freestanding. Can you explain this ?

On those pictures, one can see the similaritys of a microphone ( no baffle ) and the lxmini loudspeaker ( no baffle )

 

[Thomas_A]

But the microphone put flush on a table will sound much worse than If its freestanding. Can you explain this ?

Because the table is blocking sound from being picked up by the microphone.

 

[Tangband]

Because the table is blocking sound from being picked up by the microphone.

No.
The same happens If you put a speaker flush mounted on a table. Its not the blocking of sound, its the early reflections thats bad for the sound. The speaker gonna sound as If its as big as the whole table . But - this is not gonna happen If you put acoustical damping material on the table.

The only difference between a microphone and a loudspeaker is that the microphone takes up the sound, and the speaker do playback of the recorded sound. Both are as vulnerable to early reflections near the membranes.

 

[Thomas_A]

No.
The same happens If you put a speaker flush mounted on a table. Its not the blocking of sound, its the early reflections thats bad for the sound. The speaker gonna sound as If its as big as the whole table . But - this is not gonna happen If you put acoustical damping material on the table.

The only difference between a microphone and a loudspeaker is that the microphone takes up the sound, and the speaker do playback of the recorded sound. Both are as vulnerable to early reflections near the membranes.

But there are no such reflections from a flush mounted driver. None. Just absence of egde diffraction that will muddy the sound.

 

[Chromatischism]

1. The experiment has other implications. If you move the speaker out, you need to move your listening position the same distance. Otherwise you are changing the direct to reflected sound ratio.

This is a very underrated factor in speakers sounding different when moving them forward and back.

 

[Chromatischism]

No.
The same happens If you put a speaker flush mounted on a table. Its not the blocking of sound, its the early reflections thats bad for the sound. The speaker gonna sound as If its as big as the whole table . But - this is not gonna happen If you put acoustical damping material on the table.

The only difference between a microphone and a loudspeaker is that the microphone takes up the sound, and the speaker do playback of the recorded sound. Both are as vulnerable to early reflections near the membranes.

Of course you are right, but in your example is the microphone placed into a cutout in the table? That is why you two are not on the same page.

 

[GalZohar]

This is a very underrated factor in speakers sounding different when moving them forward and back.

Tha is just another benefit of moving them away from a wall. But I suppose if you want to test just the wall effect, it actually won't be easy as too many other things also change (room modes, distance from other walls, etc) when you start moving things around.

 

[sam_adams]

Roy F. Allison, “The Influence of Room Boundaries on Loudspeaker Power Output”, Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 22, No. 6, June 1974.

 

[srrxr71]

That could be the floor or ceiling bounce cancellation. It often occurs around there. It might even be overlapping with another which makes it even more severe.

I see. I think I need to apply some panels on the ceiling.