Soldering Iron / Station recommendations

[airborne]

i have an off-topic question. when i look at powesoft amps every inch of space is used for large components and i was like - where do they fit all the small stuff ?

well it's on the back of the PCB ...

my question is ... why doesn't everybody do it that way ?

all the chips etc are on the back of PCB in powersoft amps and the front is just for big caps, big chokes, transformers, heatsinks etc ...

why doesn't everybody do things this way ?

they also use heatsinks as chassis for the amplifier modules - so they take an aluminum C channel and build the amplifier module inside of it and use it as a heatsink ...

when i look at powersoft and i look at their "competition" i struggle to understand why the "competition" even exists ?

i mean it won't exist for very long ...

 

[Doodski]

i have an off-topic question. when i look at powesoft amps every inch of space is used for large components and i was like - where do they fit all the small stuff ?

well it's on the back of the PCB ...

my question is ... why doesn't everybody do it that way ?

all the chips etc are on the back of PCB in powersoft amps and the front is just for big caps, big chokes, transformers, heatsinks etc ...

why doesn't everybody do things this way ?

they also use heatsinks as chassis for the amplifier modules - so they take an aluminum C channel and build the amplifier module inside of it and use it as a heatsink ...

when i look at powersoft and i look at their "competition" i struggle to understand why the "competition" even exists ?

i mean it won't exist for very long ...

It can be done if the PCB layout peeps do it that way but it has advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes it's better to lay out the PCB for the least possible interference between the traces and components due to reactance, heat and other bad stuff. That means putting the components where they make the most sense and not laying it out as in big stuff on one side and SMD stuff on the other.

As a side note this is a very problem prone method of mounting a heatsink on power devices. The sandwiching of the power devices between the PCB and the heatsink is very problematic if not done near perfectly. I've repaired and attempted repairing this sort of arrangement on hundreds of SoundStream car amps and they all where junk when designed this way. They sounded great and where lovely to look at but the design was horrible and was prone to thermal runaway now matter how tight that heatsink was squeezed on.

P.S... @restorer-john took upon himself to diagnose the fault of a SMPS with class D amp failure for a peep here at ASR and this is why it failed. Sandwiched power devices between the PCB and heatsink.

Power devices sandwiched between the PCB and heat sink. The ones with the green thermal paste on them.>>>

 

[airborne]

It can be done if the PCB layout peeps do it that way but it has advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes it's better to lay out the PCB for the least possible interference between the traces and components due to reactance, heat and other bad stuff. That means putting the components where they make the most sense and not laying it out as in big stuff on one side and SMD stuff on the other.

As a side note this is a very problem prone method of mounting a heatsink on power devices. The sandwiching of the power devices between the PCB and the heatsink is very problematic if not done near perfectly. I've repaired and attempted repairing this sort of arrangement on hundreds of SoundStream car amps and they all where junk when designed this way. They sounded great and where lovely to look at but the design was horrible and was prone to thermal runaway now matter how tight that heatsink was squeezed on.

P.S... @restorer-john took upon himself to diagnose the fault of a SMPS with class D amp failure for a peep here at ASR and this is why it failed. Sandwiched power devices between the PCB and heatsink.

Power devices sandwiched between the PCB and heat sink. The ones with the green thermal paste on them.>>>
View attachment 196088

i don't think this is their most common way to heat sink "power devices" ... i think this is more of an exception.

on other hand this is how the heatsinks are on my QSC PLX and it's one of the most reliable amps on the market.

powersoft says their amps have lowest failure rate in the industry - i don't know if that is true.

 

[Doodski]

i don't think this is their most common way to heat sink "power devices" ... i think this is more of an exception.

on other hand this is how the heatsinks are on my QSC PLX and it's one of the most reliable amps on the market.

Well, I stand corrected then. As a general rule though it's a very problematic method. The issue is in maintaining the tolerance of the sandwich. Even a few thousands of a inch or more variation in the sandwich causes one or more power device(s) to overheat.

 

[airborne]

Well, I stand corrected then. As a general rule though it's a very problematic method. The issue is in maintaining the tolerance of the sandwich. Even a few thousands of a inch or more variation in the sandwich causes one or more power device(s) to overheat.

i definitely saw one LG TV video where they used the rear metal panel of the TV as a heatsink for a bunch of components and i was like ... this is a 1" thick TV that flexes like a noodle - how do they expect to maintain that thermal contact ?

a lot of stuff today is made disposable like that unfortunately. they want to get the product out as quickly as possible and at the lowest cost and just hope it makes it 1 year.

my last TV actually got bent under its own weight during installation. it flexed a good FOOT in the middle when two guys picked it up from the sides. when installed it returned to original shape 99% but a tiny kink in the middle remained. i returned it.

these manufacturers are always looking to see how far they can push things. i suppose they have to in order to stay competitive.

frankly i expected powersoft to have more problems with the way they push things.

 

[Doodski]

my last TV actually got bent under its own weight during installation. it flexed a good FOOT in the middle when two guys picked it up from the sides. when installed it returned to original shape 99% but a tiny kink in the middle remained. i returned it.

Wow! I would be returning that prontO too. That's absurd.

 

[restorer-john]

As a general rule though it's a very problematic method.

It is a dreadful method for securing power devices to a heatsink/spreader.

The valid ways are individual machine screws and washers into tapped holes or nuts, a 'bar' that has multiple screws across the devices and clamps them down, or individual pre-tensioned spring clips (but I don't love them as they can spring off or break and cause other damage).

The "squashed under the PCB method" is just garbage. I know autosound amps did it quite a bit, but as Doodski said, they also blew up a lot.

 

[airborne]

It is a dreadful method for securing power devices to a heatsink/spreader.

The valid ways are individual machine screws and washers into tapped holes or nuts, a 'bar' that has multiple screws across the devices and clamps them down, or individual pre-tensioned spring clips (but I don't love them as they can spring off or break and cause other damage).

The "squashed under the PCB method" is just garbage. I know autosound amps did it quite a bit, but as Doodski said, they also blew up a lot.

well aren't CPUs in computers cooled that way ? squashed between heatsink and PCB ? seem to work fine ...

 

[mansr]

i have an off-topic question. when i look at powesoft amps every inch of space is used for large components and i was like - where do they fit all the small stuff ?

well it's on the back of the PCB ...

my question is ... why doesn't everybody do it that way ?

It's more expensive to assemble double-sided PCBs, and the higher component density might make it necessary to use more copper layers, further increasing cost. If space is not a constraint, single-sided PCBs are simpler and cheaper.

 

[Killingbeans]

well aren't CPUs in computers cooled that way ? squashed between heatsink and PCB ? seem to work fine ...

There's a beefy metal plate on the back of the PCB to avoid stress/bending.

 

[airborne]

There's a beefy metal plate on the back of the PCB to avoid stress/bending.

i know.

the point is it can be reliably done.

i have no idea how Powersoft or QSC do it.

i agree there may be more reliable ways of doing it just not that it's a reason to overlook the amp.

 

[Ericglo]

Yes, my eyes are deteriorating as well. Too scared to get laser eye surgery done. So I have 2 pair of glasses. One for PC use and the other for distance vision. These look so dorky...

I have a similar magnifying glass. My brother in law saw it at xmas and laughed, but then wanted one for himself.

If you can wait, then there are some new eye surgery options. One is no removal of any tissue. They rearrange the shape of the eye. I can't recall all of the details, but it is in clinical trials. I looked into this about a year ago. There were some other new options as well. I need to go back and see where they are.

 

[Ericglo]

This thread has been helpful.

I realized that I could use an iron for my job on top of what I have been using. It is funny that I never put two and two together. I do need a lower temp and it looks like the less expensive irons have higher min temp. From what I can see the Hakko and Weller are the only ones that fit the bill.

 

[Wolf]

I use a Blackjack Solderwerks BK3000LF, and love it!

 

[Ericglo]

Thanks for the replies.

I purchased the Hakko fx888. I have only fired it up once, but it is nice. For those complaining about the controls, I didn't find it that big of a deal to change the temp. I haven't figured out how to set the preset yet, but shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[anmpr1]

From Tom's Hardware review. The good news is that it's got a CPU in it. The bad news is that you can't find it for sale. Or maybe it's the other way around.

Pinecil V2 Review: Smart Soldering Iron, Powered by RISC-V CPU

Low cost soldering iron, with high end features.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[pseudoid]

seems to me a lot like the hate Mercedes was getting in Formula 1 and why they had to rig the final to make Verstappen win ... perhaps people are just sick and tired of Mercedes

Oh, you are just being too kind to Mercedes.
Some of us have stronger feelings about ABL ("Anyone But Lewie").
That dude's poop probably don't stink but does any driver really need a ^&$% Barbie in the garage?
[imo J.Button was proper.]