So many obscure brands, so much malarkey, but who are the buyers?

[suttondesign]

A long phone call from a potential customer last week got me wondering. He mentioned his interest in several brands I had never heard of -- very expensive stuff. Sounded sort of like each house had its own guru and method. It put me in mind of the DAC's that have been tested here which re-invent the wheel. In the case of ultra-high-end equipment, it's clearly an eye-candy thing, at least in part, but for the life of me, I can't understand who is buying this stuff, how they get convinced, and how these little firms make money with so few apparent buyers.

I have been in audio since 1978, aged 13. The most expensive setup I ever saw was . . . wait for it . . . Amir's! Until I saw Amir's setup last year, I had never seen a real person's system with hulking mono amps, 6' tall speakers exceeding the price of many cars, etc. For that matter, not a single acquaintance of mine professionally (I practice law) has heard of headphones costing $1,000, for example, or DAC's as a separate thing, whatever. And I'm a dealer!

Obviously, the buyers for these niche, expensive products are out there, but who are you? Are you here on the forum? Can you explain to me why you would buy into a $50,000 something or other? Can you explain why, if you have that kind of money, you still have it given that you are willing to be sold on equipment that it is quite doubtful has merit commensurate with its price? That suggests to me that you should have lost all your money by now playing 3-card monty.

No offense -- I really want to know how this market ticks and who shells out the clams.

 

[tw99]

I think you're asking in the wrong forum if you want to hear from those people directly...

 

[DuxServit]

Obviously, the buyers for these niche, expensive products are out there, but who are you? Are you here on the forum? Can you explain to me why you would buy into a $50,000 something or other? Can you explain why, if you have that kind of money, you still have it given that you are willing to be sold on equipment that it is quite doubtful has merit commensurate with its price? That suggests to me that you should have lost all your money by now playing 3-card monty.

No offense -- I really want to know how this market ticks and who shells out the clams.

Well, if a smaller number of people are owning a bigger chunk of the world's wealth (see Thomas Piketty book), then they have to spend it on something

 

[Jimbob54]

I think you're asking in the wrong forum if you want to hear from those people directly...

I reckon the people with that much money probably still buy and read the magazines, them being fully analogue and that.

 

[MZKM]

I really wanna know what some people do for work to afford some of these setups.
I remember on Reddit some son was asking for like a $50K setup for his parents, I asked and he said his mom was a CEO of a Fortune 500.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think lots of people in that price category do read magazines and go by recommendations. I know or have known a few. A common one is a doctor. Rather busy, and if he can get the skinny from publications on what the short list for best or special is they don't just go for it without question. But they'll do some investigation and if the rep is solid they'll go with that. They have money, and a taste for finer things, but not very much time.

Usually you'll get something very attractive, well or over built, and it seems worth it. It may not perform better than other lesser things, but you could hardly call it not good gear. Sometimes they'll run into something that is ridiculous, and doesn't perform at all. If you check just a little however, that isn't highly common or wasn't in years past. The poor gear might be a bigger trap in these days of not going to dealers or shows and just ordering off of internet buzz.

 

[doodlebro]

It's a lot more referrals than one would think.

 

[Deleted member 9286]

Also to some of these people, 50k is not a lot of money. A dealer spewing a load of nonsense at them, throw in a few iffy demos, and they can easily justify it to themselves.

 

[Ilkless]

A long phone call from a potential customer last week got me wondering. He mentioned his interest in several brands I had never heard of -- very expensive stuff. Sounded sort of like each house had its own guru and method. It put me in mind of the DAC's that have been tested here which re-invent the wheel. In the case of ultra-high-end equipment, it's clearly an eye-candy thing, at least in part, but for the life of me, I can't understand who is buying this stuff, how they get convinced, and how these little firms make money with so few apparent buyers.

I have been in audio since 1978, aged 13. The most expensive setup I ever saw was . . . wait for it . . . Amir's! Until I saw Amir's setup last year, I had never seen a real person's system with hulking mono amps, 6' tall speakers exceeding the price of many cars, etc. For that matter, not a single acquaintance of mine professionally (I practice law) has heard of headphones costing $1,000, for example, or DAC's as a separate thing, whatever. And I'm a dealer!

Obviously, the buyers for these niche, expensive products are out there, but who are you? Are you here on the forum? Can you explain to me why you would buy into a $50,000 something or other? Can you explain why, if you have that kind of money, you still have it given that you are willing to be sold on equipment that it is quite doubtful has merit commensurate with its price? That suggests to me that you should have lost all your money by now playing 3-card monty.

No offense -- I really want to know how this market ticks and who shells out the clams.

I have always thought of it as an ego thing that is the modern-day analogue to the rich patron of the painter. It symbolises a rarefied level of influence, taste, refinement and insider knowledge that shopping at an art dealer (if they even had those in the past) doesn't give you. Cultural and social capital, which then gets conflated with the actual performance of the equipment. Consumer electronics doesn't work that way but such people either don't know yet, or wilfully reject it.

 

[suttondesign]

Piketty has a new book coming out soon, I believe. He was prescient a few years ago.

 

[Wes]

"who shells out the clams?"

I think if you ordinate a few factors you'll find a cluster:
1. have money
2. lack any real education in science or engineering
3. thus, are susceptible to blandishments of the shills

we could add some psychological profiles based on Veblen's work...

 

[mansr]

how these little firms make money with so few apparent buyers.

With the prices they charge, they only need to sell one.

 

[Ilkless]

"who shells out the clams?"

I think if you ordinate a few factors you'll find a cluster:
1. have money
2. lack any real education in science or engineering
3. thus, are susceptible to blandishments of the shills

we could add some psychological profiles based on Veblen's work...

Yes, my dad had a friend who was exactly that, worked in shipping... the last straw for his wife was when he knocked down as many non-load bearing walls (in his high-rise apartment!) as he could to give his Soundlab electrostats more space.

 

[SIY]

It's not just the eye candy- people are buying a story.

 

[Wes]

Yes, my dad had a friend who was exactly that, worked in shipping... the last straw for his wife was when he knocked down as many non-load bearing walls (in his high-rise apartment!) as he could to give his Soundlab electrostats more space.

Actually, that makes perfect sense!

 

[mansr]

the last straw for his wife

Did he marry a camel?

 

[Snarfie]

A long phone call from a potential customer last week got me wondering. He mentioned his interest in several brands I had never heard of -- very expensive stuff. Sounded sort of like each house had its own guru and method. It put me in mind of the DAC's that have been tested here which re-invent the wheel. In the case of ultra-high-end equipment, it's clearly an eye-candy thing, at least in part, but for the life of me, I can't understand who is buying this stuff, how they get convinced, and how these little firms make money with so few apparent buyers.

I have been in audio since 1978, aged 13. The most expensive setup I ever saw was . . . wait for it . . . Amir's! Until I saw Amir's setup last year, I had never seen a real person's system with hulking mono amps, 6' tall speakers exceeding the price of many cars, etc. For that matter, not a single acquaintance of mine professionally (I practice law) has heard of headphones costing $1,000, for example, or DAC's as a separate thing, whatever. And I'm a dealer!

Obviously, the buyers for these niche, expensive products are out there, but who are you? Are you here on the forum? Can you explain to me why you would buy into a $50,000 something or other? Can you explain why, if you have that kind of money, you still have it given that you are willing to be sold on equipment that it is quite doubtful has merit commensurate with its price? That suggests to me that you should have lost all your money by now playing 3-card monty.

No offense -- I really want to know how this market ticks and who shells out the clams.

I visited in Holland last week an audio show. Yesterday i spoke somebody that visited this show to who told me the following. You have to know the average audio sets that where sold had a avarage price around 90.000,- euro. We are talking sets with combined componenten like Mcitosh Krell Levinson an lots of snake oil etc etc. I thought they will have a difficult time to sell this stuff to my surprise they did sold quite a lot of sets not to high-end visitors but lots of people that had dirty money to spend. One of the attendees sold that weekend 10 of those (so called) High-end sets. A effectieve way to White the black money. Basicly it is not so difficult to convince these kind of bling bling people besides the price had to be high end brands exclusive so they can show off An they could get ride of theire burning money in their pocket.

 

[mhardy6647]

Guys (and they are guys, in the extreme majority of cases) like these are probably interested in stuff that would raise eyebrows around these parts.
(full disclosure -- I am, too. Most of it is well beyond my grasp, though... to say nothing of jetting off to Europe for a hifi fete)

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmJye3gv

etf19_039 by Holger Barske, on Flickr

etf19_128 by Holger Barske, on Flickr

Herb Reichert wrote about the 2019 ETF in the current issue of Stereophile.

 

[Snarfie]

Guys (and they are guys, in the extreme majority of cases) like these are probably interested in stuff that would raise eyebrows around these parts.
(full disclosure -- I am, too. Most of it is well beyond my grasp, though... to say nothing of jetting off to Europe for a hifi fete)

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmJye3gv

etf19_039 by Holger Barske, on Flickr

etf19_128 by Holger Barske, on Flickr

Herb Reichert wrote about the 2019 ETF in the current issue of Stereophile.

They don't know Jack about room correction or can't spell it

 

[mhardy6647]

They don't know Jack about room correction or can't spell it

It was a 'get together' -- I did hear a report from someone who was there that the sonics were terrible in that space.