How rare of a breed are we (audiophiles)?

[Zensō]

The personal computer I think took the wind out of a lot of peoples' audio equipment purchasing sails. People have the PC and that's enough for many.

That and the iPod.

 

[kemmler3D]

And therein lies the problem. The HiFi stores have disappeared due to lack of custom and the entire pursuit of high fidelity music reproduction has become marginalized. People can read all the reviews they like, study as much as they want, but at the end of the day, they need to hear the differences demonstated to them.

Classical music is what drove high fidelity in the first place and it is less popular than it ever was.

Absolutely - B&M retail has taken a nosedive in many categories... not least the hifi retailers. But that's not the only way to get a human being in front of a nice set of speakers. What if there was a hifi booth at your local farmer's market? What if the local library had a nice listening room for whatever recordings they have in circulation? What if your local nail salon or pub had a $10K system on loan from Revel for the clients to listen to?

If any high-end company cracks this problem, I believe they will have the largest market share over the next 10-20 years. However, I am not particularly optimistic that anyone will actually try. From my experience, most audio distributors are akin to talking spreadsheets more than they are audio enthusiasts. Most audio manufacturers have all the marketing creativity of a petrochemical processing plant in the USSR, and retailers are in no position to lead the way.

The high-end brands are arguably the worst offenders, they like to moan about their shrinking market, but they're all too happy to gold-plate the same amp they sold last year and add a zero to the price to keep fleecing the true believers. And those are the good ones, the bad ones are selling magic power conditioners and $10K cables.

Someone would have to take a swing at it, but I don't see that the existing players are likely to.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I can't say I ever really "heard the difference" in a shop. Not a difference that was in any way specifically translatable to my home. Mostly, I heard whatever the salesguy suggested I might hear.

Sure, obviously if you ask the average person what matters most to them when they are buying audio gear, they'll say sound quality. I mean...yeah. But do they spend any of their time when they aren't specifically shopping for new gear reading about it or browsing around audio forums discussing it? That's what us audiophiles do. I don't think it really has much to do with spending a certain amount per year. In fact, I'd say it has more to do with how much of your time is spent focused on gear when you aren't actually considering buying something.

 

[Focus SE]

I'm a fanatic then.

The term "audiophile" is certainly a subjective term and I have no qualms letting anyone self assign the moniker to themselves despite whatever equipment they may be using. If earbuds and a phone are all you need to be happy and rock out then by all means - be happy.

I would postulate though that those of us who continue to refine our largish systems (for whatever reason) enjoy occasionally listening at higher SPL as cleanly as possible with no added noise and distortion beyond the gear and speakers abilities. In this case, the speakers gotta be big at least....

I would like to add the point that when the debate starts roaring about whether or no equipment matters in the sound what is always left out is the speakers themselves. If you have basic decent speakers and you switch amps, ave’s wires or what ever it may not have an effect on those speakers. But if you truly have hi end speakers, off the shelf equipment will make them sound ok but if you pair the right equipment with a good speaker there is nothing like it. I have heard very hi priced stuff I didn’t like. Don’t get me wrong it sounded good but didn’t have the sound I wanted. If I had one piece of advice for anyone wanting to get into this chasing good sound get the best speakers you can. Yes bigger can be way better. Mono blocking shelf speakers to me seems nuts but people do it. I just had a guest over today to hear my system for the first time. He was blown away and pointed out all the things I enjoy about the system while my wife and children listen to it and say yeah it’s clear and can be loud. You either get it or don’t. I really think some audiophiles love the science so much that the sound means nothing to them. To each his own

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

If I had one piece of advice for people getting into the hobby for the first time it would be don't let cognitive bias play you for a fool. That's an excellent route to making the audiphile journey an extremely costly one.

 

[Cote Dazur]

An iPhone and a pair of AirPods Pro 2 (or equivalent) is certainly high fidelity by any reasonable standard.

Exactly, I agree it is high fidelity, so are fairly cheap dac and cheap amplifier. But owning those does not make one an audiophile.
To me an audiophile is foremost someone who listened to music not doing anything else more than how expensive or encombrent the gear is. Admittedly once one start spending time exclusively listening to music, he will try to improve the experience with (hopefully) better, bigger gear.

The other issue is that audiophiles themselves have created a situation where the hobby is viewed as eccentric.

Any one starting to be passionate enough with an activity to make it a hobby will be considered by the general population as eccentric.

 

[restorer-john]

I can't say I ever really "heard the difference" in a shop.

I grew up with fine HiFi in the house, an audiophile father and was dragged along to HiFi shows and HiFi dealers from the earliest age. Dealer demos and systems varied massively in terms of quality and presentation.

If I had one piece of advice for people getting into the hobby for the first time it would be don't let cognitive bias play you for a fool.

But by the same token, we encourage people to hear for themselves the differences don't we? It doesn't matter how they get into 'HiFi' as long as they start somewhere half decent. The natural ladder climbing will happen if the interest is there and the competition for their time and money doesn't mean it is relegated.

 

[restorer-john]

Any one starting to be passionate enough with an activity to make it a hobby will be considered by the general population as eccentric.

Very true. I picked up a nice vintage Swedish Rapid 16 stapler yesterday at my local thrift store for $1 in their throw out bin. Probably 1960s. It was out of action, dirty and unloved, but beautifully made and I couldn't leave it once I picked it up.

Now after a few hours restoration, she looks a million dollars and works like new. Even has an inbuilt brilliant staple remover that slides out and works a treat. All metal, not a single piece of plastic/nylon in it. I think I might get more into staplers and that probably makes me eccentric.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I grew up with fine HiFi in the house, an audiophile father and was dragged along to HiFi shows and HiFi dealers from the earliest age. Dealer demos and systems varied massively in terms of quality and presentation.



But by the same token, we encourage people to hear for themselves the differences don't we? It doesn't matter how they get into 'HiFi' as long as they start somewhere half decent. The natural ladder climbing will happen if the interest is there and the competition for their time and money doesn't mean it is relegated.

Sure I suppose. I feel like my own experience is that I've done better over the past few years buying stuff online based on having good information about what I was buying - aka good data regarding exactly how the equipment performs and a solid understanding of what it is I'm trying to achieve - than i ever did based on walking into shops and auditioning gear set up there. Mostly everything sounded good in the shops that specialized in audio gear. Good sound isn't that hard to achieve. I'm not sure how many people would be made into audiophiles by taking them out and having them listen to a bunch of nice set ups. I mean I'm sure they'd all be impressed...but I think like most hobbies, some people get the bug but most don't.

 

[Zensō]

Exactly, I agree it is high fidelity, so are fairly cheap dac and cheap amplifier. But owning those does not make one an audiophile.
To me an audiophile is foremost someone who listened to music not doing anything else more than how expensive or encombrent the gear is. Admittedly once one start spending time exclusively listening to music, he will try to improve the experience with (hopefully) better, bigger gear.

I guess I’ve reached a point where “audiophile“ has become a pejorative in my mind. To me, it describes the subjectivist who rejects science and places their golden ears and bizarre theories above all rationality. A new musician friend was over to the house recently and upon seeing my home studio said, “I see you’re an audiophile”. My response? “Hell no!”

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I guess I’ve reached a point where “audiophile“ has become a pejorative in my mind. To me, it describes the subjectivist who rejects science and places their golden ears and bizarre theories above all rationality. A new musician friend was over to the house recently and upon seeing my home studio said, “I see you’re an audiophile”. My response? “Hell no!”

Yeah, there's definitely a "taint" to the descriptor. But I'd still describe myself as an audiophile (one who values objective methods though for sure). Mostly that's just because there isn't really another word that disinguishes "us" from general music-lovers etc...I'm a music-lover who also has a specific interest in the equipment used to listen to musical recordings...an audiophile.

 

[rogu3]

I guess I’ve reached a point where “audiophile“ has become a pejorative in my mind. To me, it describes the subjectivist who rejects science and places their golden ears and bizarre theories above all rationality. A new musician friend was over to the house recently and upon seeing my home studio said, “I see you’re an audiophile”. My response? “Hell no!”

I'm kind of there with you, but it's the normalized term for better or worse. Maybe we need something like "audio reproduction enthusiast" or "audio reproduction and science enthusiast" (ARSE)

 

[restorer-john]

It all comes down to whether the love of music drove the quest for better sound or whether the better sound and equipment drove the search for music that demonstrates the potential of the gear which in turn creates more interest in different/new music.

For me it's been swinging both ways for decades and when combined with sales, design, build, restoration, and repair of audio gear at various stages, it's an all encompassing thing that the word 'audiophile' doesn't remotely cover.

 

[dweeeeb2]

given how hard it is to find stand alone dsp units Id say pursuers of good sound are quite rare.

 

[kemmler3D]

Very true. I picked up a nice vintage Swedish Rapid 16 stapler yesterday at my local thrift store for $1 in their throw out bin. Probably 1960s. It was out of action, dirty and unloved, but beautifully made and I couldn't leave it once I picked it up.

Now after a few hours restoration, she looks a million dollars and works like new. Even has an inbuilt brilliant staple remover that slides out and works a treat. All metal, not a single piece of plastic/nylon in it. I think I might get more into staplers and that probably makes me eccentric.

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Nice little machine there. One could consider "normal" and "boring" to be synonyms in certain contexts.

 

[RayDunzl]

I picked up a nice vintage Swedish Rapid 16 stapler yesterday at my local thrift store for $1 in their throw out bin.

No plastic on either of these, which are still in use here. Not my pictures, but same.

Inherited from Dad, a 1938 Pilot 402

And a handheld Swingline Speed Stapler, probably from a similar ancient era.

Seems to be the deluxe version with the crinkle gray finish.

Dad worked for Nabisco from about 1940 to 1983. Cracker auditor worked his way up to Regional Manager for Southeast USA.

When he died, at the hospital, I opened the window and there was a big unexpected rush of air, into the somewhat stormy summer Florida outdoors.

The next day I read in the news that high winds (maybe a little tornado) hit and damaged his office ten miles away about the same time.

 

[fpitas]

No red staplers?

 

[dualazmak]

You may please just ignore this post, but,,,
Very sorry for myself to be so stupid, but at my first instant glance on the thread title, I misread it as; "How rare(ly) bleed(ing) are we (audiophiles)?".

 

[IPunchCholla]

The real question is why people stop seeking out better sound quality at a relatively poor level.

Perhaps because one doesn’t need to come anywhere near the thresholds of audibility to enjoy music? So relatively poor is good enough for the vast majority of people. I honestly think most people on this forum overestimate what their own hearing is capable of. As in, one can hear a difference, if one focuses exclusively on the tells and is fast switching between differing versions is of NO importance when actually enjoying music. The threshold for enjoyment is much, much lower than even the lax threshold of audibility. At least for most people.

 

[Ricardus]

I'd say audiophile is one of those terms that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

Exactly. And unfortunately for me, at this point the term is a negative term. If Someone tells me they're an "audiophile" I just assume they don't know what measurements are, think they hear better than everyone else, and they look up to fools like that guy who sells "Power Regerators" and think of people like him as some sort of experts.

I just like to build stuff, and assemble systems, and listen to music.