SMSL SA300 / Infineon Class D

[Moosi]

Maybe it's because the MA12070 chip on the AS300 is working with analog signals, whereas the amplification on the AD18 goes through two chips and is being handled digitally only. On the webseite from smsl it says:

"Ad18 uses digital amplify circuit. All analog signal convert to digital signal to make PHASE of input and output signal keep the same. Phase shift is zero. Strong anti-interference ability. High efficiancy up to 90%."

No Phase-shift in my interpretation means "no loss of volume". That may be the cause of tracks playing more loudly on the AD18. However, I do not see a benefit here, since the AD18 is still capped somewhat to a certain point at which the sound will distort. And that point will come earlier compared to the AS300 since the two TAS chips on the AD18 are inferior to the single MA12070 in terms of playing high fidelity. You loose the ability to control the volume less coarsly tho with the Ad18 playing that loudly.

In addition that means the AD18 is not capable of aquiring analog input from a higher tier DAC, it can only receive digital input which is -other than USB- by definition capped to 24bit/192khz. That alone would be enough reason for me to discard it, since the internal USB-DAC is not really good and you can't upgrade it, whereas the AS300 can be upgraded with top tier DACs for years to come, literally as long as it lasts.

 

[Premonition]

Yes, both are in direct mode. Unless i am missing some setting, they are setup exactly the same way.

Now that i am running them again, the AD18 is really pumping out the music. So much so that when I have the Yamaha CD-s300 plugged into the AUX - analog in (to lesser extent USB with iPad), i almost can't control the volume - level 2 (out of 60) is a comfortable listening level (maybe a little lower than i would want), and that is as low as it goes. Level 10 is really loud.

How are you connecting to the AD18? Optical or analog? I have an AD18 as well and really wouldnt recommend connecting to it via analog

 

[Premonition]

Maybe it's because the MA12070 chip on the AS300 is working with analog signals, whereas the amplification on the AD18 goes through two chips and is being handled digitally only. On the webseite from smsl it says:

"Ad18 uses digital amplify circuit. All analog signal convert to digital signal to make PHASE of input and output signal keep the same. Phase shift is zero. Strong anti-interference ability. High efficiancy up to 90%."

In addition that means the AD18 is not capable of aquiring analog input from a higher tier DAC, it can only receive digital input which is -other than USB- by definition capped to 24bit/192khz. That alone would be enough reason for me to discard it, since the internal USB-DAC is not really good and you can't upgrade it, whereas the AS300 can be upgraded with top tier DACs for years to come, literally as long as it lasts.

Very much as you've said, I own an AD18 and dislike how undead and digital it sounds, I actually tried connecting ES9038 and AK4495 dacs to it and it actually sounded even more garbage. Even without hearing it, I'm very sure the SA300 is better.

It is also loud at low numbers in terms of volume, I'm often at between vol 11-12 but want something in between, ****** controls they have. The digital glare also becomes unbearable for me at vol 20 so I've never gone past that

 

[farundrpar]

How are you connecting to the AD18? Optical or analog? I have an AD18 as well and really wouldnt recommend connecting to it via analog

Analog for the CD Player using the AUX input.
Bluetooth with iPhone
USB for iPad (which picks it up as a headphone as mentioned before in this thread).

Maybe it's because the MA12070 chip on the AS300 is working with analog signals, whereas the amplification on the AD18 goes through two chips and is being handled digitally only. On the webseite from smsl it says:

"Ad18 uses digital amplify circuit. All analog signal convert to digital signal to make PHASE of input and output signal keep the same. Phase shift is zero. Strong anti-interference ability. High efficiancy up to 90%."

No Phase-shift in my interpretation means "no loss of volume". That may be the cause of tracks playing more loudly on the AD18. However, I do not see a benefit here, since the AD18 is still capped somewhat to a certain point at which the sound will distort. And that point will come earlier compared to the AS300 since the two TAS chips on the AD18 are inferior to the single MA12070 in terms of playing high fidelity. You loose the ability to control the volume less coarsly tho with the Ad18 playing that loudly.

In addition that means the AD18 is not capable of aquiring analog input from a higher tier DAC, it can only receive digital input which is -other than USB- by definition capped to 24bit/192khz. That alone would be enough reason for me to discard it, since the internal USB-DAC is not really good and you can't upgrade it, whereas the AS300 can be upgraded with top tier DACs for years to come, literally as long as it lasts.

This is great information, thank you. Feels like the better option is the SA300 as i can control the volume a little more - it still gets plenty loud, just more in the 30-40 volume range with bluetooth for example. Also seems like a better option for when I pair a DAC (maybe Topping e30 or ifi Zen DAC) with it.

 

[aebln]

I was thinking of the LRS-100...

By the way, it works really well with the LRS-100. You can adjust the voltage, but unfortunately it doesn't show you the current voltage. I left it in middle position, figured that must be around 25V. Will borrow a multimeter tomorrow to check.
The LRS-200 is one huge beast btw - sending it back.

 

[whazzup]

I returned mine. Sterile cold clinical presentation. Perhaps that’s the IMD distortion creating that sound signature

I measured the FR of my speakers when driven by the SA300 and the Yamaha A-S500. No difference. But it is possible you might find A-S500 'clinical' too, whatever that means.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...00-infineon-class-d.12210/page-11#post-675691

 

[Moosi]

I returned mine. Sterile cold clinical presentation. Perhaps that’s the IMD distortion creating that sound signature

internal DAC or external? The internal USB-DAC from realtek is not really good, they put them on Mainboards usually. With a decent DAC, there shouldn't be anything clinical.

 

[Toku]

Does AC adapter whine when the SA300 is in standby or is it do that all the time?

Meanwell's LRS-100, LRS-150, and LRS-200 series also sometimes whine.
In my case, the LRS-150/48V whine especially badly.

 

[Moosi]

Is there anything better than a Mean Well LRS to be paired with an amp? Other than linear supplies the size of a toaster?

 

[aebln]

Meanwell's LRS-100, LRS-150, and LRS-200 series also sometimes whine.
In my case, the LRS-150/48V whine especially badly.

Yepp, my LRS-100 also whines quite annoyingly. I only noticed when everything else was silent.

Is there anything better than a Mean Well LRS to be paired with an amp? Other than linear supplies the size of a toaster?

I ordered this one, for a test.. don't want to spend too much money on a PSU.. the amp alone was 100€.

 

[aebln]

I ordered this one, for a test..

...and I can't recommend it at all. It does not whine - but my speakers play all kinds of unwanted noise when I'm using it.

 

[Moosi]

Im curious, does the "whining" occur when being in standby or does it occur when playing music? If the last is true, how could you even hear it? With the SMSL PSU I do not notice any noise coming out of it.

 

[aebln]

Im curious, does the "whining" occur when being in standby or does it occur when playing music?

It is constantly whining when it's plugged in. You can only hear this high pitched noise when the room is near silent. So when the amp is off or in standby and no other noise is present.

 

[Toku]

Sabaj has released an A10a amplifier that uses the same infineon MA12070 chip as the SA300.
The input is RCA only, but the SMPS power supply is built-in.
A model that removes BT and USB from SA300 and has a built-in SMPS power supply instead.
The three brothers, SMSL SA300 and Loxjie A30, are now born.

http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=80

 

[Moosi]

A model that removes BT and USB from SA300

yet costs nearly the same. I wonder if the internal PSU is any better than the SMSL one or even a Mean Well. They claim it to be optimized for harmonic sound. I would love to see it reviewed here on audioscience.

 

[aebln]

yet costs nearly the same. I wonder if the internal PSU is any better than the SMSL one or even a Mean Well. They claim it to be optimized for harmonic sound. I would love to see it reviewed here on audioscience.

I am curious as well. It would have been the perfect amp for me, since it has all I need from the SA300.. I ordered an M500 v2 for the rest. Bluetooth is certainly nothing I would consider using if there is a better option (Wired connection, Airplay).

 

[palatin8]

The three brothers

Four brothers. Don't forget about SMSL DA-8s. You can see SA300 and DA-8s as twins, but not identical - still they are four brothers now. DA-8s also skips digital USB, but not bluetooth, and adds XLR-input (discussable how balanced it is), external power.

See picture of power supply that came with DA-8s (SAP-1963-T). Is it the same as with SA300? Please compare.
edit: Image corrected. It's LCAP37.

 

[Moosi]

its different (worse). Only 19V (not 24V or 26V) Mine says:

Model: LCAP37
Input: 2.1A - 50/60hz
Output: 24V - 6.75A

the PSU of the Sabaj A10a claims to be 300W (162W@LCAP37)

 

[Toku]

The power a

Four brothers. Don't forget about SMSL DA-8s. You can see SA300 and DA-8s as twins, but not identical - still they are four brothers now. DA-8s also skips digital USB, but not bluetooth, and adds XLR-input (discussable how balanced it is), external power.

See picture of power supply that came with DA-8s (SAP-1963-T). Is it the same as with SA300? Please compare.

View attachment 117903

Oops. I completely forgot about the DA-8s.
There were four MA12070 brothers in all.

The power adapter that comes with the three SA300s I purchased is the 24V/6A shown in the photo.

 

[Moosi]

The power adapter that comes with the three SA300s I purchased is the 24V/6A shown in the photo.

That's interesting. Did you buy in/from france? There is french labeling on it. It seems to be a lower grade and/or outdated PSU compared to the one that came with my AS300, which has 6.75A (instead of 6) and a german GS/TUV-seal which is usually a higher tier certificate than CE and US ones. In addition yours claims to have an efficiancy level of only "IV" whereas mine is labeled as "VI". Does yours whine? Mine does not whine at all, even if I put my ear close to it.

here's a picture:


This is also the PSU used in this review:
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/11/measurements-smsl-sa300-infineon-merus.html