Single Revel F208 with low midrange output

[617]

It just cost them my business.

Yeah I doubt I'd go with Revel if that's what their support looks like. The grammar alone is bad enough.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

One incident with one support drone concerning used speakers out of warranty is enough to drop an otherwise well-regarded speaker brand from consideration? Wow.

 

[MichaelJ]

Those are polarized I think? You want non polar (NPE) / bipolar capacitors. A little more unusual but required for audio.

I would get the ones from parts express. I use them all the time.

Thank you. I ordered some of these too.

 

[617]

One incident with one support drone concerning used speakers out of warranty is enough to drop an otherwise well-regarded speaker brand from consideration? Wow.

I'd take it into consideration that the support was incredibly unhelpful and dismissive. Even for an out of warranty product they should offer some kind of support or advice. Something like 'we'll help you, but it's going to cost you.'

I also take into consideration the fact that Revel has no style. I take into consideration they are owned by Samsung who sold me a dishwasher which terminally failed after 3 months and was an absolute nightmare to deal with. I also take into consideration my own negative support experience with JBL. I also take into account the fact that they haven't updated their flagship line in many years and I have questions about their long term commitment to high end audio. I also consider the fact that the designer of the M2 system left JBL when it was acquired by Samsung.

Do those things disqualify the brand for me? Not completely, the performance, value and construction quality is still great.

 

[HooStat]

One incident with one support drone concerning used speakers out of warranty is enough to drop an otherwise well-regarded speaker brand from consideration? Wow.

Fair question. It is one of many factors in making a decision about what I want to do in our family room. As I am a week or so away from having to make a decision, this pushed me over the edge. I realize it may be an anomaly.

 

[puppet]

One incident with one support drone concerning used speakers out of warranty is enough to drop an otherwise well-regarded speaker brand from consideration? Wow.

You have to admit they could of handled this better. A (maybe) seven year old loudspeaker, the brand flagship model =$$$$= and no feasible way to have it repaired. (their wording not mine) That's got to be a tough sell for buyers that pay attention.

 

[restorer-john]

One incident with one support drone concerning used speakers out of warranty is enough to drop an otherwise well-regarded speaker brand from consideration? Wow.

Absolutely. It's pretty clear the quality of construction, componentry, assembly and back-up parts availabilty leaves a lot to be desired. I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft barge pole to be honest.

Being unable to remove drivers easily for replacement, repair or inspection is unforgiveable on products costing this much.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

As I previously acknowledged it's not unusual to get incorrect information from a less knowledgeable tech support person at any company which could well be the case here. As I also previously mentioned the solution to receiving unsatisfactory technical feedback is for the consumer to request that the issue be elevated to a senior manager who is likely to be more familiar with company policies. In the absence of such verification incorrect assumptions often take on a life of their own.

 

[AudioJester]

As I previously acknowledged it's not unusual to get incorrect information from a less knowledgeable tech support person at any company which could well be the case here. As I also previously mentioned the solution to receiving unsatisfactory technical feedback is for the consumer to request that the issue be elevated to a senior manager who is likely to be more familiar with company policies. In the absence of such verification incorrect assumptions often take on a life of their own.

Bugger all that. Lots of alternative speakers these days.
This could easily have been me in this situation. Dont need anyone explaining it to me, more than capable if drawing my own conclusions either way.

 

[ROOSKIE]

If you read the warranties for a number of products you will find a mix of company policies with many warranties only applying to the original purchaser and not transferable. It's factored into the cost of the product along with other costs such as "free" shipping. Consumers pay extra for products with more comprehensive warranties such as those that are transferable to multiple owners. Having worked for a couple of different large corporations I can tell you that when you attend a cost and pricing meeting the bean counters come in with books full of numbers that show what each added feature will add to the manufacturer cost and consumer pricing of a product.

Of course it's fair to argue that a premium speaker brand such as Revel should have a more premium, transferable warranty and simply add a few extra dollars to the consumer price of an already fairly pricey product.

I think Revel is f thing up here. A warranty applies to the manufactured product, not to people. It doesn’t matter if you are the 10th owner of the speaker, if it’s faulty and it’s not due to l user misuse, just take responsibility and repair the damn speaker.

Apple stores repair iPhones if the serial number is under guarantee, no questions asked, no purchase invoice requested.

You have to admit they could of handled this better. A (maybe) seven year old loudspeaker, the brand flagship model =$$$$= and no feasible way to have it repaired. (their wording not mine) That's got to be a tough sell for buyers that pay attention.

Apple's warranty format would be fairly unusual for speakers.
I see more non-transferable warranties vs transferable ones with speakers.

Brands are not only under pressure to protect their pricing but also protect their dealer networks and definitely don't want shady dealers or even more shady types flipping extra product on the side on eBay. Unfortunately if you buy used outside of the dealer network you are taking a calculated risk (which can be dealt with by asking for the original receipt and letting the seller know if something goes wrong you plan to have the speaker serviced under warranty if it still applies, this happened once with a buyer of some of my speakers and I helped ensure he got the warranty service). With a non-transferable warranty and emphasis on direct from dealer sales, there are side effects such as folks who buy used and get less than stellar service. (if you bought used from an Audio Shop, I suspect here would be more options here)
The stellar service is supposed to be facilitated by the dealer who sold you the product. Not from Revel. They are not exactly set up for that. Even if you buy online at M.D. or Crutchfield in the USA you would have fairly good dealer service a phone call away.

In any case this still isn't the greatest service level.
OP, the other thing is that chatting or emailing are terrible ways to get special service. I have had far better experiences with just about any company calling and talking to someone. In fact many times it has gone from near 0 service to full on truly exceptional simply by calling and talking.
And be polite but but don't take no for an answer, you have no reason to accept a no. Explain that you really need help and would really appreciate help, but also kind of expect it as the product is very expensive. Most folks are really going to do what they can for you, if they still can't help, politely escalate higher up the chain - someone on the other end will eventually be the right fit.

Maybe even call a local dealer and ask them to help you get a crossover and offer them a little profit.

If you end up cutting the crossover out and don't like soldering, leave enough wire attached at both ends to install butt-splice connectors or something similar.
You could also send the crossover to me and would install the capacitor for you, though I bet you got this.
I also add my vote that 68 is totally fine, there will be no practical difference and may, due to tolerance actually be the same value you would get if buying a 67.

Bummer about the tight fit there. Well, if you do get it fixed and they sound good when the time comes to sell the pair someone will still give you $$, you are not completely out. Skip doing anything to the other speaker, why risk f-ing that one up needlessly. 1 68 and go listen.

 

[puppet]

As I previously acknowledged it's not unusual to get incorrect information from a less knowledgeable tech support person at any company which could well be the case here. As I also previously mentioned the solution to receiving unsatisfactory technical feedback is for the consumer to request that the issue be elevated to a senior manager who is likely to be more familiar with company policies. In the absence of such verification incorrect assumptions often take on a life of their own.

This is the sort of back and forth you'd expect from an insurance company.
Having had a small cabinet shop business for many years I learned the value of "word of mouth". Leaving a customer hanging, even after 10 or more years of initial installation, just isn't an option if you care about brand rep and growing a business.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

This is the sort of back and forth you'd expect from an insurance company.
Having had a small cabinet shop business for many years I learned the value of "word of mouth". Leaving a customer hanging, even after 10 or more years of initial installation, just isn't an option if you care about brand rep and growing a business.

Been there, done that. I owned a small business with a company policy prioritizing customer satisfaction. While this was emphasized to our employees they were only human and occasionally made procedural errors. If given a chance I always tried to make good with our customers and we received a good word of mouth reputation from this. But there isn't much that can be done by management to correct an employee error when management is not made aware of the issue. In this case it can't be determined if there's a problem with an individual support person or with Revel company policy without elevating the issue to Revel management.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Thanks for the support, everyone. I purchased this pair used, unfortunately, so I don't know that I have a claim with respect to the factory warrantee. That's the risk with purchasing on the used market, and I've always known that. (Maybe from now on I'll do some cursory measurements to validate speakers are up-to-spec before finalizing purchases...lesson learned???) The sheer size/weight of these makes it extremely inconvenient to ship, but I'm not opposed to driving it to a good shop if it's close-by and they might have a shot at fixing it. I'm in Yardley, PA, which has both a Revel dealer within driving distance and is relatively convenient to Philadelphia and NYC (in case anyone can refer me to a good shop or trusted individual DIYer...) I'm also not opposed to digging into the circuitry myself to try to diagnose the issue, though I don't have a ton of confidence in my requisite knowledge or abilities. I'll keep y'all posted on what I do and find out. And please keep any and all ideas coming...

Even so, Revel should be willing to support and service the speakers even if not covered under warranty, for a fee (based on FMV for the service).

Just read further in the thread. So glad I'm a Kef guy. Don't think I'll ever buy Revel now, based on this.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

An interesting alternative solution (project) occurred to me in the middle of the night: if determining the cause of the issue in the circuitry proves too difficult or the procedure for fixing it proves beyond my capabilities, I could always just rip out the passive crossovers altogether and actively tri-amp the things…

I have the amplification channels in the form of an ATI AT527NC and then I assume a MiniDSP 4x10HD would do the trick. I suppose I would need to figure out a way to add a third pair of binding posts…

Ordinarily I would think this is more trouble than it’s worth and ripping out the circuitry from a well regarded $5k loudspeaker I’ll-advised. But maybe, in this case, in a way, it would simplify things. It would certainly be an interesting project and potentially a killer setup. Crazy idea?

You could also buy an Octo Dac 8 Pro and use a software based crossover on your PC, such as Ekio or Dephonica, or even Audiolense XO. You might wind up with a better sounding speaker than the original.

 

[puppet]

Been there, done that. I owned a small business with a company policy prioritizing customer satisfaction. While this was emphasized to our employees they were only human and occasionally made procedural errors. If given a chance I always tried to make good with our customers and we received a good word of mouth reputation from this. But there isn't much that can be done by management to correct an employee error when management is not made aware of the issue. In this case it can't be determined if there's a problem with an individual support person or with Revel company policy without elevating the issue to Revel management.

I tend to agree with you here but it's that disconnect that has been growing over the decades within companies/corp that is concerning. Seems the first contact with support is to receive a "high and inside pitch". A customers level of frustration does vary and it's always best to be polite when corresponding with issues, no doubt. ... but from my point of view, the bottom line is the customers purchase failed. Having to cross borders within the companies hierarchy can be just as frustrating.

Granted, the problem here is one of an out of warranty product ... but the response to the OP seems to indicate that this particular product only has a (5) year service life. That just seems odd to me considering the product does have serviceable parts. To be honest, Revels' response to the OP doesn't seem to be unreasonable on its face, given the particular product and circumstances. Which indicates a design issue. In that light, why should anyone invest their hard earned cash with them? Buy a flagship product only to be SOL after the warranty expires? Other makers products are still being enjoyed by people who inherited them from their grandparents. Something to think about.

 

[617]

Samsung just got fined for dumping a bunch of sulfuric acid into the Austin ecosystem, another good reason to skip Harman.

@sigbergaudio how much sulfuric acid have you dumped into your fjord?

 

[Laserjock]

Samsung facility in Austin spilled up to 763,000 gallons of acidic waste into tributary, memo says

The spill happened in a storm water pond and tributary of Harris Branch Creek over the span of up to 106 days, according to a memo sent to the city council.

www.kvue.com

Here’s a report on it.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Samsung just got fined for dumping a bunch of sulfuric acid into the Austin ecosystem, another good reason to skip Harman.

@sigbergaudio how much sulfuric acid have you dumped into your fjord?

I haven't dumped any, and we offset our carbon footprint via goclimate.com, so in theory Sigberg Audio is carbon neutral.

The rules about waste disposal are generally very strict in Norway, so all waste we generate are delivered at the local "miljøstasjon" which basically means "environment station". Here everything is sorted and safely disposed. If I dumped sulfuric acid in my local fjord, someone would probably throw me in after.

 

[MichaelJ]

So I received the new capacitors from PartsExpress today.

Those are polarized I think? You want non polar (NPE) / bipolar capacitors. A little more unusual but required for audio.

I would get the ones from parts express. I use them all the time.

Got these in today and replaced the bulging cap in the one mid/tweeter crossover. I'm very happy to report that this fixed the problem! Below you can see my new in-room measurements for each speaker matching pretty well across the midrange frequencies, despite some asymmetries in the setup and the room.

Initial subjective impressions are what you would expect: Much better imaging—and things sound right. Before, from time to time, I would be able to localize midrange frequencies coming from each speaker and the imaging was fuzzy and biased to one side. It was a pestering problem that was not always obvious but left me feeling very unsatisfied. Now it's quite obvious why I felt that way: With the midrange equalized, the stereo image is well-established, centered, and the speakers pretty much disappear, an illusion that I relish and have come to expect when I take the time to carefully setup my speakers.

I still hope to repair the cabinet finish where it cracked around the baffles when I removed the bass drivers. But that's a project for another day...

Thank you to everyone here who helped me diagnose this problem and provided the guidance and encouragement I needed. This is a great community of knowledgeable folks, and I'm very grateful!

 

[restorer-john]

Post a closeup picture to this thread of the crappy failed/bulged capacitor that has caused you all this angst.

I'd be asking Revel/Harman for a new speaker if it were me. They clearly have no idea when they wrote this:

It is highly unlikely and exceedingly rare that it would be your crossover network. But here is the problem, in order for you and us to really know that, you'd need a dealer or service provider to take a look at those speakers. If after some servicing in person mentions the need for a new crossover, you would have to send the speakers into service which we never recommend. But, crossover networks are not purchasable by consumers. So this present a dilemma.